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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence The Ship of Theseus comment

The difference is that The Ship of Theseus had all its parts replaced one by one, in a long period of time. If you replace 90% of the ship at the same time (RAM, CPU and Motherboard), then the analogy breaks down.

It's a perfectly understandable analogy unless you nitpick for no reason.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#492
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I prepurchase this now, will I be able to run the following on it efficiently: 1. Some kind of quantized version of DeepSeek R1? 2. Flux image generation models via popular tools like A1111 or Comfy?

You’ll be able to run distills of DeepSeek R1. For the full model, you can network together multiple and use exo or llama.cpp RPC. You can do image generation as well! AMD has some demos of this, and they are maturing PyTorch support to broaden the software ecosystem.

Thanks for the answers. I prepurchased one now out of FOMO, though I'm still trying to figure out if I need to cancel the order or if I can trust that I'll actually be able to run stuff on it.

Regarding LLMs, am I going to be able to run quantized models? Doesn't have to support all quantization methods, but at least one of the popular quantization methods would need to work (e.g. GGUF or EXL2). I ask this because quantized models provide the most "bang for buck" in LLMs.

Regarding image generation, in real workflows there is typically a lot of dependencies (much more than in LLMs, and much more than in toy examples for image generation). I'm wondering how many of these dependencies will in practice be limited to NVIDIA and CUDA. For example, if you grab some popular ComfyUI Flux workflow from Reddit, are you able to actually run that on Framework Desktop?

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What OS? My air can't upgrade and is out of space with like nothing installed. Curious if still macos or something else, now.

You can upgrade the disk of a MacBook Air with a larger SSD and install newer MacOS versions with https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ .

Thanks a lot for that link! I know nothing of Apple stuff and a friend has got an old iMac that he thought was unupdatable but it seems there's a way. Cheers!

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#494
post #490
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I like the concept of being able to upgrade the mainboard, the problem I have is that the support needs to come with it. I've had a framework 13" intel 13th gen since September 2023 and it's "mostly" ok. There's a weird battery charging issue where it discharged while plugged in which I raised shortly after getting it and it's still there I've been told to wait for a response. That one I can live with. But for the pa…

That stuff is mostly fixed on the AMD stuff (I've owned every model of framework 13 and the framework 16 now), which makes me cautiously optimistic for the future. I think you still have to approach them as an ideals company working hard to become an actual company, which is why I don't buy their stuff for work anymore but buy it all day long for personal use. For work I can get a lenovo with similar specs and often a better OLED screen with a 3 year next day on site support contract for the price of the assembled frameworks usually. For home I prefer to self support and I greatly appreciate the speed at which their parts ship and the reasonable prices, plus with the DIY discount it's closer to price competitive. I think with the 16 I have now and I hope with the 13 refresh they just announced the problems stay away broadly and I can say they are an ideals company that is also an actual company but I need another year of use to feel comfortable with that statement.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This only exists because nobody was putting the Ryzen AI Max+ 395 in anything... And then a desktop because fitting this in a laptop is hard (hence why nobody else is doing it, either) The Ryzen AI Max+ 395 was paper launched a month ago. What Framework announced here is just another pre-order (even batch 1 won't ship until Q3). There are dozens of other systems, including mini-PCs, announced months ago which are s…

Where can I find those mini-PCs? The HP Z2 Mini G1a is "Coming Soon". If this is to be believed: "2025年5月以降販売開始予定", which translate to "Sales scheduled to start after May 2025" That is Q2 2025 - at the earliest. I haven't found any other with a committed release/ship date. This Reddit thread tends to agree: https://www.reddit.com/r/MiniPCs/comments/1ieiate/when_are_r... Even the Asus Z13 laptops with the 395+ have no…

They were announced months ago, not shipping months ago. Framework announce Q1 and is shipping Q3. Again, keep in mind the CPU itself only launched last month. This is the real reason the 395 had not been put in anything yet.

Plenty of folks on Reddit have already received shipment (not order) confirmation of the Z13. It looks like even more as of this morning. I doubt if any have actually fully received said shipments yet as it has only been a couple days since launch. It'll likely remain pretty out of stock unless you managed to get an order immediately at launch, again due to the paper launch of the 395 last month and low 395 availability until Q2.

I didn't know HP was making one too! That'll be exciting as it's easier to order that at my work than e.g. an ASUS one or what have you.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#496
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> practically everyone else still offers today The Steam Hardware Survey shows that 1920x1080 is still the majority resolution, and that's among an audience that's inordinately populated by technological enthusiasts. The fact that people are seemingly dead-set on sticking to 1920x1080 despite--as you point out--the availability of alternatives only further strengthens the argument that the majority of consumers just…

Note that I game at 1080p (or worse), even on my setup with dual 4k monitors (because it is also over 10 years old), so neither shows up on steam survey as anything other than 1080p (which also puts dual setups at a different category). Gaming at 1080p or even higher still requires thousands on GPUs which I'm not willing to do. However simply having more than 1080p for desktop usage is accessible and has been so for…

> so neither shows up on steam survey as anything other than 1080p

The hardware survey doesn't occur while games are running. It's recording the display setting of your desktop, which would put you and everyone like you in the 4K bucket.

> If you want to play the useless popularity game, go and check what are the resolutions on the phones and tablets with even smaller screens sold in the last 10 years

I have a rather new high-end phone. Its native resolution is 2400x1080, and that 2400 is only there because phones have a particularly long aspect ratio compared to other devices.

> "The fact" is people today would never accept sub-retina dpis even for cheap phones, and the market has clearly spoken.

1920x1080 is a wildly popular resolution. You appear to be frustrated that the market hasn't spoken in your favor.

> "The fact" is your arguments about human perception are utter bullshit

You appear to be hallucinating arguments that I haven't made.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LPCAMM2 memory is the answer, isn't it? It's just not catching on, because of course it isn't. Manufacturers have no incentive to let you upgrade parts on your own.

Framework entire brand is to let you upgrade parts on your own, and they said CAMM was technically impossible because signal integrity.

That sounds like an excuse.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#498
post #163

It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…

I agree. I was an early adopter and have a Framework 13 11th gen intel (batch 4) and have been generally happy with it. Except the keyboard stopped working and I had to replace it, ~100 tiny screws later (and one stripped screw). And the battery drains fast (~24 hours) when suspended. And except that it won't turn on anymore without plugging into a particular USB-C port with a "dumb" USB cable (the basic 5V 900mA typ…

I was also an early adopter (batch 2) I ended up buying a m2 macbook air to replace it because the thing overheated and down clocked to 200Mhz (yes megahertz, not gigahertz) constantly and it was unusable. It sits around unused, I can't even give it away to family because I don't want to hear complaints about it being unusable. I just don't trust framework to not have issues.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using standard m.2 storage alone makes it 1000 times better than mac

It is indeed better than the Mac. It's still 1000 times worse than a regular desktop PC which lets people swap RAM modules, the CPU, add a dGPU and so on.

Which regular pc desktop under 2000 gets you 128gb of vram?
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