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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#351

Post by Manabu-eo »

aseipp wrote: post #248
jsheard wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if modular memory will continue to evolve and be competitive bandwidth wise with soldered. That's the promise of CAMM2, which is supposed to enable socketed LPDDR with almost the same performance as soldered-down LPDDR. It's still pretty bleeding-edge though so it's hard to blame Framework for sticking with soldered memory for now.

CAMM2 only has a 128-bit bus so it's going to severely compromise performance for workloads that want higher interconnect bandwidth, which Strix Halo is targeted at. For things like that, wider busses are always going to give much better performance/watt than upping clock speeds. I'd be more than happy to see CAMM2 in general laptops, but it will probably always be much weaker at shared GPU/CPU designs like Strix Hal…

You just need to use two CAMM2 to get 256-bit bus, just like what you do with regular DIMMs when you need more channels.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#352

Post by Manabu-eo »

skyyler wrote: post #140
kibwen wrote: post #132

Is integrated/non-upgradeable RAM the unavoidable future for all consumer-grade devices? Is there any sort of standard on the horizon that would enable the massive memory bandwidth to compete against the M1-style approach?

LPCAMM2 memory is the answer, isn't it? It's just not catching on, because of course it isn't. Manufacturers have no incentive to let you upgrade parts on your own.

Framework entire brand is to let you upgrade parts on your own, and they said CAMM was technically impossible because signal integrity.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#353

Post by kcb »

elabajaba wrote: post #337
znpy wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a fairly small company, and going for amd/intel means reaching the widest audience. Linux on arm is very mature, but windows on arm not completely. That being said, other companies could very well develop and sell boards for the frameworks laptop. So much so that iirc sifive did release a risc-v laptop board to use in the frameworks laptop case.

Linux on arm is actually pretty terrible outside of the server space due to their (Qualcomm, Imagination, and ARM) integrated GPUs being bad and having terrible drivers.

Qualcomm doesn't belong in the list, Freedreno and Turnip are feature complete open source GPU drivers.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#354

Post by kcb »

kllrnohj wrote: post #333
soerxpso wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The architecture was their choice. It's completely possible to build a PC with that form factor which does not have soldered RAM, so it's strange that they went with it. Their brand with laptops is supposed to be 'more repairable' but they've chosen to make a desktop PC that's less repairable than their laptops are? It doesn't make any sense with the rest of their lineup. The person who would want this product is the…

That market, "repairable modular desktops", is extremely saturated. This only exists because nobody was putting the Ryzen AI Max+ 395 in anything, so they got gifted the entire market of "GPUs with more than 32gb of RAM that aren't Apple." And then a desktop because fitting this in a laptop is hard (hence why nobody else is doing it, either)

This almost definitely did not happen.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#357

Post by numpad0 »

martey wrote: post #79
ortusdux wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the 12-inch form factor could be modified to support a 360 deg hinge? I enjoyed the Lenovo Yoga's tablet configuration.

I know the comment you're replying to called it a "180 degree hinge", but the linked Ars Technica article states that it "flips around to the back with a flexible hinge, a la Lenovo's long-running Yoga design". This is not clear from the pictures in the article, but was on display during the livestreamed event earlier today.

It's sort of obvious if you've seen the Panasonic implementation like in CF-RZ line, it's the same setup. The top and bottom halves are connected through a pair of square pieces long as the laptop's thickness. Hinges each articulate 180 degrees to total 360 degrees to allow it to fold like a human knee joint.

The four hinges must stay synchronized under lift force from the user, but I haven't seen that being a problem on a Let's note, so it's probably good.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#358

Post by samtheDamned »

coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

This is huge for me. I've wanted a framework for years and got really close to purchasing a 13" but I can't pull myself away from 2 in 1s (or really just any laptop with a touchscreen). The fact that it's going to be budget focused also excites me as a student, I hope that screen quality isn't too compromised.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#359

Post by currymj »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #105
mywittyname wrote: post #76

Why this over a traditional ATX work station? The article even points out the motherboard will fit in an ATX case, so size doesn't seem to be the major selling point. For gaming specifically, so many micro ATX motherboards offer Gen 5 PCIe, which can handle a proper video card, double the RAM, and the smaller cases are only slightly larger than this Framework.

Is the audience truly gamers? Presumed this was just poor journalism from ars

their marketing photos include 1) a game controller next to the PC, 2) a bottle of Bawls soda next to the PC, so I think so.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#360

Post by [deleted] »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #70
kingsleyopara wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note on the more RAM: for the 128GB option, my understanding is that the GPU is limited to using only 96GB [1]. In contrast, on Macs, you can safely increase this to, for example, 116GB using `sysctl`. [1] https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amds-beastly...

On linux, the gpu can go up to 110 GB.

[deleted]
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