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Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

forums.hexus.net

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Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#141

Post by nonrandomstring »

Fear/risk is at work here. Government by clear guidance, not guesswork is needed. The word "unlikely" is doing too much lifting in the guidance. OFCOM need to hard clarity with the kind of detail to satisfy lawyers. OSB is sound in its aims, a fumbled hot potato in its long-long discussion, a hash of an implementation, and the explication/communication is a regurgitated dogs dinner. Normally our gov communication is very good. Why can't OFCOM write? I guess we all know any forum with more than a few members likely already has software and some basic policy settings to do this. Unclear guidance is making operators jumpy and afraid.

An opportunity for anyone with a transformer from "UK.GOV Hand-waving" -> forum_settings.json

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#142

Post by ryandrake »

jltsiren wrote: post #115
_bin_ wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? if you're located elsewhere you can literally just ignore UK/EU law. they don't have jurisdiction over you; worst-case scenario is probably them ordering ISPs to block your site.

While the actual risk is minimal, countries do have reach beyond their borders. For example, if you ever leave your home country to visit a third country, that country could arrest you and extradite you to the country that doesn't like you. Or they could force any financial institution (or even any company) that wants to do business within their territory to stop doing business with you. The EU probably wouldn't do t…

What are the chances that someone who runs a tiny, hobby motorcycle forum is going to be extradited from his vacation abroad for breaking a U.K. law? 0.1%? 0.01%? 0.001%? Less? If we only did zero-risk things, nobody would do anything.

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#144

Post by milesrout »

mjburgess wrote: post #44

What is the meaning of "illegal content" given in the OSA? What will social media platforms be forced to censor (, remove, ..) ... let's take a look: Table 1.1: Priority offences by category ( https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/onli... ) Disucssion of offenses related to: prostitution, drugs, abuse & insults, suicide, "stiring up of racial/religious hatred", fraud and "foreign interference". So o…

Where does it say discussion of those offences is illegal content? It says "content that amounts to a relevant offence". Frustratingly that is nonsensical: content surely cannot "amount to an offence" in and of itself. Offences have elements, which fall into two categories: actus reus and mens rea. And "content" cannot be either. Perhaps posting some content or possessing some content is the actus reus of an offence but the content itself does not seem to me to sensibly be able to be regarded as "amounting to an offence" any more than a knife "amounts to an offence". A knife might be used in a violent offence or might be possessed as a weapons possession offence but it makes no sense to me to say that the knife "amounts to an offence".

Either way, the point of that document in aggregate seems to be that "illegal content" is content that falls afoul of existing criminal law already: (possession and distribution of) terrorist training material is already illegal and so it is illegal content. But saying that you committed an offence is not, in and of itself, an offence, so saying you took drugs at university doesn't seem to me like it could be illegal content. Encouraging people to do so might be, but it already is.

Maybe I missed the bit where it says discussing things is illegal, so correct me if I am wrong.

Not your lawyer not legal advice etc etc

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#145

Post by milesrout »

thrance wrote: post #136
mjburgess wrote: post #44

What is the meaning of "illegal content" given in the OSA? What will social media platforms be forced to censor (, remove, ..) ... let's take a look: Table 1.1: Priority offences by category ( https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/onli... ) Disucssion of offenses related to: prostitution, drugs, abuse & insults, suicide, "stiring up of racial/religious hatred", fraud and "foreign interference". So o…

[flagged]

The point the person you are responding to is saying is that even discussing this is, under his interpretation, "illegal content". Which presumably would make your comment illegal content. I am not sure I agree but either this law is very poorly communicated to the public, or it is batshit insane authoritarian nonsense, if that is what people are taking away from it, but either way it is a major fuckup.

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#146

Post by [deleted] »

moffkalast wrote: post #132
zamadatix wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though the "sort of" is doing a lot of work there.

I think a more accurate comparison would be burning down a library because you can't afford the manpower to check every single book for arbitrarily defined wrongthink.

[deleted]

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#147

Post by JansjoFromIkea »

DarkmSparks wrote: post #98
nickdothutton wrote: post #28

Anyone* would be crazy to run a UK-based or somewhat UK-centric forum today. Whether it be for a hobby, profession, or just social interaction. The government doesn’t perceive these sites as having any value (they don't employ people or generate corporation tax). [*] Unless you are a multibillion $ company with an army of moderators, compliance people, lawyers.

more than just forums, it's basically a failed state now. I knew when I left (I was the last of my school year to do so) it was going to get bad once Elizabeth died, and that would be soon, but I never imagined it would get this bad. The plan for April is to remove the need for police to obtain a warrant to search peoples homes - that bad. I'd say "there will be blood on the streets", but there already is... This vid…

"it was going to get bad once Elizabeth died"

What do you think she was doing?

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#148

Post by thereisnospork »

zamadatix wrote: post #126
ninininino wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of like burning down a library because you can't make it ADA compliant and install a wheelchair ramp.

I feel as though the "sort of" is doing a lot of work there.

Iirc UC Berkeley(?) did exactly that to their YouTube library of recorded lectures due to an accessibility lawsuit.

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#149

Post by milesrout »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #123
CamperBob2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not how it works. Large companies can afford compliance costs. Smaller ones can't.

I believe file uploading services like cloudinary have this capability already. It does have a cost, but it exists.

But you shouldnt need to use file uploading services! File upload doesnt require additional services, it has been a well understood part of HTTP for decades. You can do file upload using normal web form submission in your web server/CMS/Rails/Laravel/CGI program without paying a monthly subscription to some service at an exorbitant markup.

Also, those filters are obviously imperfect. Remember the man who got his Google account terminated because he took a photo of his son's rash to send to his doctor? Pedo alert, pedo alert, a child is naked in a photo. My parents must be pedos too, they took a photo of me sitting in the bath when I was a toddler. Call the police.

Re: Forum with 2.6M posts being deleted due to UK Online Safety Act

#150

Post by RLN »

DarkmSparks wrote: post #98
nickdothutton wrote: post #28

Anyone* would be crazy to run a UK-based or somewhat UK-centric forum today. Whether it be for a hobby, profession, or just social interaction. The government doesn’t perceive these sites as having any value (they don't employ people or generate corporation tax). [*] Unless you are a multibillion $ company with an army of moderators, compliance people, lawyers.

more than just forums, it's basically a failed state now. I knew when I left (I was the last of my school year to do so) it was going to get bad once Elizabeth died, and that would be soon, but I never imagined it would get this bad. The plan for April is to remove the need for police to obtain a warrant to search peoples homes - that bad. I'd say "there will be blood on the streets", but there already is... This vid…

>I knew when I left (I was the last of my school year to do so) it was going to get bad once Elizabeth died

How small was your school year?! What does Elizabeth (presumably the 2nd) dying have to do with anything?

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