Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC • Hacker News Board

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#231

Post by aroman » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:09 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #186

The Framework website right now: You are now in line. Thank you for your patience. Your estimated wait time is 7 minutes. We are experiencing a high volume of traffic and using a virtual queue to limit the amount of users on the website at the same time. This will ensure you have the best possible online experience. What the hell, Cloudflare? CDN with a wait time, really?

Lol - it's not that Cloudflare can't handle the traffic. It's the _framework_ can't handle the traffic and set up Cloudflare to ratelimit entry using their Waiting Room[0] product.

Clearly poorly messaged if it made you think it was a Cloudflare capacity issue!

[0] https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/wai...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#232

Post by desireco42 » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:09 PM UTC

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #62

coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

Yet another 1080p garbage screen. Please! I had tablets with higher DPI 10 years ago!

I can see that you have strong feelings about it, but let's be honest, this is perfect resolution for the laptop. And since it is Framework, they might have upgrade in the future.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#233

Post by Tijdreiziger » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #150

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not. It would be perfect for a 6'' phone, maybe. The goal is to have at least double the pixel density, and my 2016 tablet can reach this ( ~2700x1800 at 12'' ). Even Surfaces have been using 1440p at 12'' since 2016, and 2880 x 1920 since 2018! Why would Android & Apple tablets at much smaller screen size have higher DPIs, if 1080p was perfect? Do you expect to put Android tablets closer to your face than…

> Since when has DPI started _decreasing_ again? Since the pandemic. I have a still functioning Galaxy S8 in my drawer, which shames modern phones with its 570ppi density.

Having to render all those pixels drained the battery faster, though. It was more practical to keep it at 1080p.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#234

Post by MadnessASAP » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208

coldpie wrote: post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

To the best of my knowledge the ARM ecosystem is an absolute pain to work in, you can get Phone/Tablet SoCs painfully encumbered with out of date drivers and binary blobs. Or you can get enormous server processors that will cost $1000+. There just isn't much that's suitable for making a desktop or laptop that would meet Frameworks markets expectations.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#235

Post by abound » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

te-x wrote: post #168

GuB-42 wrote: post #163

It is a weird product for the Framework brand. The pitch for the Framework laptop is that it is repairable/upgradable/modular. Something that is uncommon for laptops nowadays. This is the opposite. Desktops are modular by default, so much is that my computer is like the Ship of Theseus, I never changed it, but upgrade to upgrade, it is a completely different machine than it once was (it started off as a 486!). This o…

It's still a modular computer, just not a laptop. It's more like if Tesla made an electric scooter

The soldered RAM is surprising for Framework, and doubly surprising for being so in a form-factor that usually doesn't have soldered RAM.

Similar to what other commenters have expressed, it just seems like they shouldn't have built this product if they couldn't figure out the soldered RAM bit.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#236

Post by tomnipotent » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:13 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #211

sangnoir wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So don't make it then? You presume to have internalized Framework's core-values more than the founder/CEO? The box is not my cup of tea,but they are free to experiment.

I presume that my core values, which I might know just a teeny tiny bit, align with what the corporation has stated as their values. But at the end of the day, the"core values" of a corporation are just some words on a webpage on the journey to more profit and I mean, hey, I like money too, so it's not like I can really fault them for pivoting.

This is literally the same product they've been selling with just one more component soldered on (memory). I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it a "pivot".

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#237

Post by desireco42 » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:13 PM UTC

This desktop will be perfect for me, as well as 12" lappie... Give me 128Gb of ram with good number of processor cores that is not $5K or so. I am already moving towards Linux, this will be the moment.

I was looking from GMKTex and Beelink to have at least 64Gb, but this is fantastic deal and I can't wait for it.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#238

Post by kaladin-jasnah » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:14 PM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #212

rdedev wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY The ceo kind of explains why in this video. In essence it seems to be a limitation of the chip from AMD

From 7:40~ "The signal integrity doesn't work out." I don't understand, but maybe someone else could explain.

I think there's like electromagnetic interference if signals across various buses in computers are too close together, making it more likely that the signals get corrupted or noisy, which could increase latency for trying to clean the signal or make it impossible to get any data of value.

Not an engineer though so please correct me. I only have a vague understanding of this.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#239

Post by AshamedCaptain » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:14 PM UTC

ziml77 wrote: post #217

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why this has half the resolution of my current same size 12'' tablet, even though my current device has also half the battery capacity, and likely costed half than this thing will cost. Even if you use today's prices, the cheapest iPad has almost double the resolution. No, 1080p at 12'' it is not plenty dense. You do not put this smaller thing as far from your face as a 24'' monitor.

Triple the DPI? Are you doing the calculations right? The DPI of this screen is 189. The iPad Standard, Air, and Pro at 11 and 13 inches have a DPI of 264. The iPad Mini is a standout at 326 DPI, which is 1.72x the DPI.

You are correct; I am using number of horizontal lines rather than computing the actual DPI. But this barely changes my argument, since even when they are at screens of similar size cheap iPads have double the number of horizontal lines. I have updated my post to reflect that.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#240

Post by forevernoob » Tue, Feb 25, 2025, 10:15 PM UTC

brunoqc wrote: post #203

forevernoob wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...the first Framework Laptop 12 motherboard is going to use Intel's 13th-generation Core i3 and i5 processors I _really_ hope they launch an AMD version (perhaps with an iGPU) soon after that. That and preferably with Libreboot support. This would make it the ideal portable laptop for me and thus I'd be able to (finally!) replace my X220T.

Why would you prefer AMD? price, heat/fan noise?

Considering Intel's track record on hardware vulnerabilities, I'd much rather prefer AMD.