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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#121
I'm still outright begging Framework to get better at supporting the products that it's already shipping (and to also just... _actually ship them_ to more places). Get more third parties manufacturing compatible components and expansions that are compatible across those products in order to fulfill the stated goal of solving the industry's extensible and modular hardware deserts that exist outside of the lowest-end SBC and higher-end desktop PC markets. Get there before Dell starts doing it, because they've started sniffing around this market segment, and if Framework's not able to scale up if/when Dell enters then it's gonna be over fast.

Most of the manufactured Framework-compatible accessories are skins, wraps, and expansion card organizers. Cooler Master dropped one mainboard case and seemingly bounced from the laptop project altogether. There are a bunch of cool DIY projects, a handful of which have been productized, all of them niche.

The community marketplace concept never materialized. The extensibility promise of the 16's input modules haven't materialized. The only third-party 13 mainboard that exists after 3.5 years is a cool but ultimately impractical RISC dev board/proof-of-concept; the idea that the Framework mainboard would become a laptop equivalent to the ITX/ATX standards in desktops just did not happen, and Framework's decision to start shipping a bunch of different mainboard formats means it never will.

It's particularly depressing to me that the only modular component that seems to be compatible across the 12, 13, 16, and Desktop seems to be the expansion cards, which are a fun concept but at the end of the day are just a form factor for USB-C port adapters.

I'm honestly excited about the 12 being a supposedly cheaper repairable option, although seeing this weird Desktop ready to go before the 12 is a boggling decision. I have no interest in spending $1k-$2k+ for a novel mini-PC using laptop components, in a mostly plastic case, with a bespoke motherboard crammed with soldered-on bespoke parts (even for good reasons!) that are designed to _not_ be repaired or replaced.

(By the way, why _doesn't_ the desktop use the Framework mainboard form factor? I'd be interested in a genuinely larger mainboard-compatible desktop case with more airflow, designed for a specialty Desktop mainboard but compatible with the laptop mainboards too.

A mini-ITX board that's less modular than a commodity mini-ITX board, in a mini-ITX case that isn't competitive with commodity mini-ITX cases, is such a weird choice in Framework's "keep using your mainboards" pitch. If they're going to ship a bespoke board with little to no added value when installed outside of their own case, why doesn't that board use _their own board format_?)

Hell, Cooler Master's MasterFrame line is a better execution of what I'd expect and want out of Framework shipping an *TX-compatible desktop case than Framework's case looks to be, and Cooler Master apparently worked on Framework's case too!)

And even then, the 12 is just another set of components that aren't cross-compatible with the 13. If they were selling a convertible 13 case, or even just a stylus/touchscreen display for the 13, I'd be buying it right now.

Even the 13's new AMD boards aren't exciting because I expect them to ship with the same or worse firmware and driver stability or compatibility issues that still haven't been solved on the 7040-series 13 mainboards a year after shipping them, not because Framework is a terrible company but because their support from AMD has apparently been a nightmare. I finally have my 13 stable and expect a new generation of AMD mainboard to just chuck it back into firmware hell.

That Framework keeps taking VC money just to design and ship new laptop lines when their existing lines aren't stable, _and_ ship a less-modular, less-repairable novelty in the Desktop that they try to pitch as a gaming machine—when their laptop fundamentals are still admittedly shaky, and the gaming market still doesn't seem to care for or about them very much at all—just keeps eroding the confidence that this is going to work out in the end.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#122

Soldered memory and no x16 PCIe slot on a desktop are interesting choices. Not sure who the target market is. Seems like the interconnect between boards is also pretty slow compared to Nvidia Digits or even thunderbolt 5.

Laptop chips often only have x8.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#123
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

They briefly mentioned a new keyboard. I would really like QMK for my framework 13, but alas it was only available for the framework 16...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#124

Annoyingly they don't disclose that the Zen 5 ryzen chips are a mix of Zen 5 and Zen 5c low cache density optimized cores.

I think Strix Halo doesn't have any Zen 5c.

The framework 13 laptop chips have Zen 5c cores.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#125
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

The 12-inch laptop might be interesting as a potential upgrade to my remarkable, with the obvious benefit of also being usable as a laptop.

I wonder how writing on the touch screen feels?

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On linux, the gpu can go up to 110 GB.

Apologies, I stand corrected. Do you have a reference for this? I'm genuinely curious why the 96GB "limit" is so frequently cited - I assumed it must be a hardware limitation.

It's mentioned in LTT video: https://youtu.be/-lErGZZgUbY?t=126

(video also features Framework's founder/CEO)

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#127

One interesting angle here could be if this had good compatibility with SteamOS to the point where it supported most/all the games the Steam Deck does. That would make it a very appealing offering, since right now DIY SteamOS setups are a pretty wild west.

As is you can buy a decent AMD mini PC for about $500 and just install Linux on it. It works very well for the most part, and a few distros offer steam OS like experiences. For my mini PC I couldn't get the EGPU to work with Linux so I'm stuck on Windows for now... But I play a few games that are Windows only ( anti cheat) so this is for the best.

Ideally what you'd be paying for is Valve's first-party partnership, and therefore a commitment to tailor Proton development to specifically ensure that this hardware keeps working (at least as well as a Steam Deck works, anyway). I believe this is what Valve has done for the Lenovo Legion Go S.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#128
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

Oh, that's far more interesting to me than the desktop thing. I have a 13" Framework now, but a 12" would be super-nice as a travel laptop -- and the tablet conversion might let me use it as a on-the-go ebook reader.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#129

Why this over a traditional ATX work station? The article even points out the motherboard will fit in an ATX case, so size doesn't seem to be the major selling point. For gaming specifically, so many micro ATX motherboards offer Gen 5 PCIe, which can handle a proper video card, double the RAM, and the smaller cases are only slightly larger than this Framework.

I could see myself going for something like this for gaming actually. My gaming needs are pretty tame to the point that my current 3080Ti has been and remains overkill (usually 2+ year old titles @ 2560x1440), and as time has gone on I’ve come to value silence (which the FW Desktop seems good at, overcooling a laptop APU with a single fan desktop cooler) over raw power. In addition, the discrete GPU story continues t…

I agree with the point about noise. I’ve been looking for a powerful, compact and silent gaming pc for a while ( with silent then compact being more important than powerful ). I don’t need a laptop - a Mac mini-like or slightly bigger box is good enough .

When I look around, gaming pcs are mostly about big and visible, sometimes reasonably silent, almost never compact, inconspicuous and silent.

To me there is a market for this kind of product, and it hasn’t been addressed properly yet.

Since I have so far failed in my quest, I now use GeForce Now from my Mac mini which is a good approximation of what I want.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should still be able to click around the pages to browse the products, even if full cart functionality isn't there. Whoever is in charge of that website gets an L. For that matter, it makes me reconsider my hosting of things with Cloudflare. I know nothing about framework's site's configuration, but I know I don't want my site to have a waiting line like that. edit: also, the timer went down and then went back up,…

until the user logs in, the cart functionality is implanted client side with cookies, and incurs no db hit. guess it's true what they say about hardware vs software. you gotta pick one to be good at, and the other is going to suffer for it, to varying degrees. (inb4 someone mentions Apple. Apple is a hardware company. Their software's alright but it's full of bugs and they're simply not as good as it as they are with…

I assume you're going to skip marketing material and go straight to "build my own" or whatever they call it. I assume they didn't expect such influx in site visitors.

E-commerce is hard. I worked at a company where we could use 1% of infra at its peak every day of the year except 15-20 days. We knew exactly when floodgates will open, and we still would suffer extra high latency or even downtime.

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