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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#91

Nvidia must be extremely nervous about this - the most direct threat to the RTX4090. But hey, they've refused to provide GPUs with lots of RAM at a cheap price so competition, y'all.

This isn't really in the same category as the 4090/5090, it has a lot more memory but with a fraction of the bandwidth. 128GB at 256GB/sec vs 32GB at nearly 2TB/sec.

Nvidia's actual counterpart would be their DIGITS mini-PC, which has a similar big-and-slow memory architecture.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#92
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

Having seen how students treat school-provided Chromebooks, those IO modules will get lost and damaged at light speed.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back to the internet of the nineties. But even then there wasn't a queue to "view" a website.

It's actually a pretty nice system when you're trying to purchase something. You have a reasonable estimate of when you'll be at the front of the queue, and when that time comes, you're more likely to be able to complete your transaction because the site isn't overwhelmed. It would obviously be better if they could limit it to something like `store.frame.work`, rather than putting a queue in front of their entire sit…

Yeah, for the shop it makes total sense, but for the front-page not so much.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#94

It looks like their event drove a lot of traffic towards frame.work - Cloudfare is giving me a 1hr 9min wait to access the site. https://i.imgur.com/twcxJjr.png

Here's a screenshot (WEBP 1452 x 16383) of the product page, for anyone who wants a glimpse at what's behind the Cloudflare wall: https://i.ibb.co/Y4n5Qhzm/framework.webp ( "Framework Desktop is a big computer made mini" )

thank you

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the 12-inch form factor could be modified to support a 360 deg hinge? I enjoyed the Lenovo Yoga's tablet configuration.

I know the comment you're replying to called it a "180 degree hinge", but the linked Ars Technica article states that it "flips around to the back with a flexible hinge, a la Lenovo's long-running Yoga design". This is not clear from the pictures in the article, but was on display during the livestreamed event earlier today.

Good! Strange that their photos don't show this off. Lenovo ad-spend showcasing tablet mode was enormous.

https://frame.work/laptop12

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#96
post #91

Nvidia must be extremely nervous about this - the most direct threat to the RTX4090. But hey, they've refused to provide GPUs with lots of RAM at a cheap price so competition, y'all.

This isn't really in the same category as the 4090/5090, it has a lot more memory but with a fraction of the bandwidth. 128GB at 256GB/sec vs 32GB at nearly 2TB/sec. Nvidia's actual counterpart would be their DIGITS mini-PC, which has a similar big-and-slow memory architecture.

AMD claims this APU delivers more than twice the tokens per second than an RTX4090.

So its better than 4090.

The reason its better with a less powerful GPU is context switching.

"AMD also claims its Strix Halo APUs can deliver 2.2x more tokens per second than the RTX 4090 when running the Llama 70B LLM (Large Language Model) at 1/6th the TDP (75W)."

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-slides-c...

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#97
post #22

Two other Framework announcements: New 12-inch laptop form factor with 360 degree hinge (ie "tablet mode") and a touchscreen. No price announced, but it is aimed at students: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/frameworks-laptop-12... New mainboard upgrade options for Framework 13 models: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/framework-gives-its-...

Here's hoping that touchscreen becomes available as a component for the 13 as well.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#98
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CF can only handle static websites, I suspect the issue the store-backend side not being able to catch up.

I should still be able to click around the pages to browse the products, even if full cart functionality isn't there. Whoever is in charge of that website gets an L. For that matter, it makes me reconsider my hosting of things with Cloudflare. I know nothing about framework's site's configuration, but I know I don't want my site to have a waiting line like that. edit: also, the timer went down and then went back up,…

It's a feature you have to activate and it's only available to Business/Enterprise sites, you're not at any risk of it showing up unless you want it to.

https://developers.cloudflare.com/waiting-room/

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#99
This is a cool product for people who want a lot of RAM for LLMs. Those like me who build their own systems would get better value out of a machine they've built.

The only parts which can be customized for this product are the presence or absence of a handle, the cooler's fan, the case's side and some front tiles. That's it. The m.2 SSD and the wifi are the only components which can be replaced.

This isn't the kind of product I wanted Framework to make. I was hoping they'd make hardware which can be repaired and which has components available for it. The motherboard has all the chips and everything else soldered on it. The most expensive part of the computer needs to be replaced if a voltage regulator or some other part found on the motherboard fails. There's no cheap $ 100-200 motherboard to replace in this product. It's the same problem as with Apple's Macs.

Can someone at Framework answer this question: what do the customers do with your Framework Desktop hardware once it breaks and you no longer support it? It's e-waste. What happens when the motherboard in my computer dies? I buy only a replacement motherboard while keeping the RAM, the CPU and GPU, unlike for Framework Desktop. What happens when the GPU I have is no longer useful or supported? I buy only a new GPU.

This board doesn't even have PCI-E for a GPU. This product is only good as long as the iGPU provides the required performance for whatever application is of interest. This is a weakness the Framework 13 motherboard shares. There's no way to remove the board from its case to use it with a PCI-E x16 GPU with the right PSU.

AMD is known to abandon their customers once they release newer dGPUs and SoCs with iGPUs. This can be easily observed if you review the countless reports for crashes with amdgpu on Linux. The amdgpu driver has various bugs which lead to crashes of the GPU or of the entire machine. They're also not good at shipping CPU microcode for consumer CPUs to address hardware bugs and CVEs.

As a side note, even the Framework AI HX laptops are extremely expensive for what they offer in terms of hardware. A laptop which goes above $ 2000 without RAM, an SSD, a charger and without any adapters for those bays seems to be a good deal? That's absurd. There are laptops with 32 GB of RAM, the same CPU, better displays, a 1 TB SSD, a charger and all the required ports present on the laptop for less than $ 2000 (including taxes).

I hope someone from Framework reads this. I want repairable products which can be upgraded without replacing a monolithic part which is the entire computer.

Other noteworthy things

- their site went down hard with a queue to see the site... downright absurd

- they haven't posted the specs of the Framework 12

- there are still no actual repair centers which repair their products, no physical stores or sellers which sell Framework products outside of their site

- there have been reports of people who didn't have their hardware problems with Framework laptops addressed, even LTT addressed such issues

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#100

It looks like their event drove a lot of traffic towards frame.work - Cloudfare is giving me a 1hr 9min wait to access the site. https://i.imgur.com/twcxJjr.png

Same. This is the first time I’ve ever seen the Cloudflare queue screen.

I waited 20 minutes. And it was worth it.
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