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'Hey Number 17 '

404media.co

11–20 of 168 posts

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#11

I don't think the issue is necessarily the tool, but rather the execution. I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing, and tools to track/improve it are a net benefit, but the way they approached it was abhorrent. But seriously, who approved posting that (before it was deleted)?

> I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing

At what point does demanding top efficiency from a human every minute of every work shift cross the line into abuse? I would argue this tool is miles over that that line.

Workplaces should server the workers too, not just the capital interests of the owners.

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#12

I don't think the issue is necessarily the tool, but rather the execution. I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing, and tools to track/improve it are a net benefit, but the way they approached it was abhorrent. But seriously, who approved posting that (before it was deleted)?

> I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing At what point does demanding top efficiency from a human every minute of every work shift cross the line into abuse? I would argue this tool is miles over that that line. Workplaces should server the workers too, not just the capital interests of the owners.

=~ s/server/serve/ :D

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#13

Imagine if they had read something like Out of the Crisis by W. Edwards Deming. Instead of creating a digital whip for shallow (or even outright harmful) managers, they could have developed a QA tool grounded in real, deep thinking—one that respects proven principles of manufacturing. There’s still time to course-correct, and embracing some of the foundational literature on the topic could make the difference.

That doesn't sound like disruption at all. Don't you understand? These people went to Stanford (or some other renowned school) so they know better than anyone with experience. The Torment Nexus is the future!

/s

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#14

Dang this was depressing and appropriate to read on HN I guess. In unrelated I saw a license plate with just “YC” today. I thought the article was gonna be the following joke: It’s a guys first night in jail. At 9pm one of the other inmates yells “51!” And all the other inmates laugh and laugh. A moment later another inmate yells “29!” And all the other inmates laugh and laugh. The new inmate asks the cellmate - what…

... and I'd heard the variation: Another inmate calls out "36!" which brings out raucous laughter. The new inmate asks why that one got such a great response, to be told "We haven't heard that one before!"

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#15
This is exactly why we need regulations that prohibit this. The upcoming EU regulations [0] seem to at least partially cover this, as employment is one of the high risk categories for AI systems. What that means in detail is still to be seen, but at least the groundwork is already there.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43152937

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#16
post #10

I think we should have a reckoning as a society regarding the prevalence and predilections of sociopaths. Patric Gagne is a PsyD with diagnosed sociopathy (technically anti-social personality disorder, I think ) who writes and speaks about her experience and she makes a number of good points. One is that we often can't conceive of sociopaths as anything but the stylized depictions we get in media where they are often…

> One is that we often can't conceive of sociopaths as anything but the stylized depictions we get in media where they are often portrayed as violent animal abusers or serial killers.

This is psychopaths!!! Sociopaths are different. Sociopaths just lack empathy, they do not necessarily want to do anything with that. Psychopaths are the ones who intentionally cause harm. Psychopaths can have empathy and simply choose to ignore it.

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#17

I don't think the issue is necessarily the tool, but rather the execution. I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing, and tools to track/improve it are a net benefit, but the way they approached it was abhorrent. But seriously, who approved posting that (before it was deleted)?

> I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing At what point does demanding top efficiency from a human every minute of every work shift cross the line into abuse? I would argue this tool is miles over that that line. Workplaces should server the workers too, not just the capital interests of the owners.

AI iS gOInG tO mAkE tHe wOrLD a BeTtEr PlAcE. Mhm, I'm sure. These people don't see those that they believe are underneath them as human beings. They are cattle to have their blood drained for profit. Privacy? Ethics? Integrity? Humanity?... Or money?

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#18
Consider nearly any professional sports team and the relative effort that athletes put in. There's very little disagreeing on objectives our outcomes (score/prevent points, win games) and incentives are directly tied to this (win more games, get more money).

And yet when you listen to what some of the highest-performing athletes say, they'll readily admit they don't go 100% effort 100% of the time. In fact, that's often a very bad thing to do because you can burn out quickly, and then the opposing team who paced themselves a little better starts running over you. However, there are spurts of intense activity where you really do go 100%, and then you quickly dial that back again to make sure you have effort reserved in the tank. Ideally you get down to 0 at the end of the game, but it's also readily acknowledged that sometimes this is out of your control, and often in quite significant ways, like the football bouncing weirdly when it popped out of someone's hands.

All of this is to say that there's a deep obsession in the corporate world around efficient teams performing labor, but when you get into organized sports where there's literal teams fighting for an objective, they don't chase "efficiency" that would amount to "time doing useful things on the field". Such a measure would be ridiculous.

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#19

I don't think the issue is necessarily the tool, but rather the execution. I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing, and tools to track/improve it are a net benefit, but the way they approached it was abhorrent. But seriously, who approved posting that (before it was deleted)?

> I think everybody can agree that improving efficiency is a good thing At what point does demanding top efficiency from a human every minute of every work shift cross the line into abuse? I would argue this tool is miles over that that line. Workplaces should server the workers too, not just the capital interests of the owners.

> At what point does demanding top efficiency from a human every minute of every work shift cross the line into abuse?

Minimizing human value leads to greater dividends to the only parties that ultimately matter - execs and shareholders.

Dodge vs Ford has safeguarded these parasitic behaviors for over a century.

ref: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...

    The case, Dodge v. Ford Motor Company, was about minority shareholders' ability to challenge the authority of the board of directors to make business decisions that were alleged to be serving interests other than maximizing the value of plaintiffs' shares.

Re: 'Hey Number 17 '

#20

Dang this was depressing and appropriate to read on HN I guess. In unrelated I saw a license plate with just “YC” today. I thought the article was gonna be the following joke: It’s a guys first night in jail. At 9pm one of the other inmates yells “51!” And all the other inmates laugh and laugh. A moment later another inmate yells “29!” And all the other inmates laugh and laugh. The new inmate asks the cellmate - what…

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