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Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

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Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#131

Post by mjmsmith »

infecto wrote: post #59
trunch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this will definitely be used only to innocently tell off people doing 1/10 the work of everyone else, and not micromanage and hound people to increasingly unrealistic standards in already desperate conditions. Safe to say you aren't in any position where every move you make will be watched by AI and analysed for faults so that your boss can scream at you more efficiently whenever you don't meet standards for…

Do you really think this tool is making folks micromanage and abuse employees or perhaps they already would be doing that and this tool helps it? There can be real value in these types of tools, its ultimately up to the implementation and I don't believe this tool will somehow make a happy work environment into an abusive one, the abuse will have most likely already existed.

Maybe the implementation could include an option to show the worker's name.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#132

Post by johnnyanmac »

infecto wrote: post #59
trunch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this will definitely be used only to innocently tell off people doing 1/10 the work of everyone else, and not micromanage and hound people to increasingly unrealistic standards in already desperate conditions. Safe to say you aren't in any position where every move you make will be watched by AI and analysed for faults so that your boss can scream at you more efficiently whenever you don't meet standards for…

Do you really think this tool is making folks micromanage and abuse employees or perhaps they already would be doing that and this tool helps it? There can be real value in these types of tools, its ultimately up to the implementation and I don't believe this tool will somehow make a happy work environment into an abusive one, the abuse will have most likely already existed.

>or perhaps they already would be doing that and this tool helps it?

Yes. I don't think we should ethically encourage the abuse of workers. And that official lens of marketing can and will shape who reaches out, even if the tool can indeed be used ethically. Framing is key.

As a tame example: think of the graphic design and marketing of red bull vs Monster. They have the same basic ingredients and purpose but that simple red bull design vs the in-your-face punk-esque vibe of Monster will change who buys it, how they identify with it, and even alter the perception of how it tastes.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#133

Post by ascorbic »

philipjoubert wrote: post #35

As someone who grew up in a 3rd world country and whose mother owned a clothing factory, this product seems...fine? The response is an indication of how little people know about how their t-shirts and shoes are made.

I wonder if you'd think differently if your mother was a worker rather than an owner?

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#134

Post by giantg2 »

latexr wrote: post #94
infecto wrote: post #56

The only thing truly embarrassing is that nobody at YC advised them that this ad is 1) terribly amateur and 2) has the chance to look extremely bad. Did not advise and in fact published to their feed. Weird optics, I am not familiar with what I presume to be Indian factories, other than the wild lack of safety (thanks youtube) but I cannot see how this video does anything positive. As for the product itself I don't t…

> like all things, it boils down to the owner/managers of said factory not the tool. Tools are created and optimised for a purpose. If you gouge someone’s eye out with chopsticks or a spoon, their inventors are hardly at fault. If you kill a bunch of people with an AK-47, its inventor doesn’t get a free pass.¹ These guys clearly built this tool to crack down on factory workers. They aren’t excused when managers use t…

A more apt example would have been Nobel with TNT, as it has more legitimate purposes. This software could be used legitimately.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#135

Post by leonheld »

gagik_co wrote: post #103
leonheld wrote: post #74

The response here would be significantly different if this was about measuring the performance of software engineers in wealthy countries.

I mean… yes, obviously? There’s a lot less room for exploitation of white collar workers in wealthy countries than sweatshops. Though performance quantifying software still deserves a lot of scrutiny for removing humanity from work in any context.

It's obvious to you becase you seem like a decent human being, judging from this comment.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#136

Post by friendly_chap »

dang wrote: post #106
friendly_chap wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is reading from YC, I'm happy to review their submissions, I was perhaps the first who raised concerns and was on top of the thread with my comment. (See this post I made on LinkedIn about this: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/crufter_today-y-combinator-de... )

I haven't read the details or watched the video, but it does sound like you noticed something that should not have been there. I noticed that your page says this: > New: the thread "Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers" on Hacker News got removed from the front page despite having 242 points. The thread fell in rank because it set off a software penalty called the flamewar detector. We ha…

> If you want to be fair, you could add that information. Otherwise, readers will assume you mean that we nefariously censor negative posts about YC, when the truth is the opposite.

I'll do that, sure! Dang, I have deep respect for both you and HN for many-many reasons (HN literally changed my life and made it 1000x). So don't take this as me having a grudge. I just like accountability.

> but it does sound like you noticed something that should not have been there.

I don't follow this, sorry.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#138

Post by mrguyorama »

giantg2 wrote: post #134
latexr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like all things, it boils down to the owner/managers of said factory not the tool. Tools are created and optimised for a purpose. If you gouge someone’s eye out with chopsticks or a spoon, their inventors are hardly at fault. If you kill a bunch of people with an AK-47, its inventor doesn’t get a free pass.¹ These guys clearly built this tool to crack down on factory workers. They aren’t excused when managers use t…

A more apt example would have been Nobel with TNT, as it has more legitimate purposes. This software could be used legitimately.

And yet Nobel was so upset about his legacy of being the explosives guy for WW1, we still reward scientists with money and an award from him.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#139

Post by davidgerard »

dang wrote: post #108
oefrha wrote: post #19

Brought to you by the VC famous for InstallMonetizer? Make no mistake, it’ll basically back anything that makes money, there’s no moral high ground. And like it or not, this kind of AI (or should I say A-eye) is here to stay.

That's deeply untrue and unfair, and the fact that you've reached back 12 years to find an example, when YC has funded thousands of startups since then, is evidence against what you're saying. YC has turned down many startups because they didn't think what the product was doing was right, and it has defunded and banned startups for ethical reasons over the years. It's not your fault that you didn't know this, since n…

dude, YC funded stablecoin scams, including one that lost everyone's money in Terra-Luna.

Re: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers

#140

Post by dang »

friendly_chap wrote: post #136
dang wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the details or watched the video, but it does sound like you noticed something that should not have been there. I noticed that your page says this: > New: the thread "Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers" on Hacker News got removed from the front page despite having 242 points. The thread fell in rank because it set off a software penalty called the flamewar detector. We ha…

> If you want to be fair, you could add that information. Otherwise, readers will assume you mean that we nefariously censor negative posts about YC, when the truth is the opposite. I'll do that, sure! Dang, I have deep respect for both you and HN for many-many reasons (HN literally changed my life and made it 1000x). So don't take this as me having a grudge. I just like accountability. > but it does sound like you n…

Thanks! I appreciate the kind reply—a nice change from how these things usually go. And I'm grateful to hear that you feel that way about HN. (What you say about how it changed your life is true in my case too, which is one reason why I'm doing this job.)

> I don't follow this, sorry.

Oh, I just meant that it sounds like you spotted something (the video in this case, I assume) that should not have been on an official YC launch page. I was being careful with my wording because I haven't looked at any of the details and haven't myself seen the video—I'm only going by the reactions that people are having to it.

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