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What happened to the n in restaurateur?

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Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#11

Post by puzzledobserver »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #8
jasonpeacock wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about that... Is there a distinction between a restaurant where you can order specific dishes (made to order?) vs a place where you just got whatever is available?

Not anymore in english, because the second went basically completely extinct except a few location- or activity-specific exceptions like food trucks and sport concessions.

Not really.

Or at least not completely extinct in South India. Some of my favorite childhood memories are from these messes (short for mess hall, I assume). You go there, pay what they ask, eat what they serve.

MTR, Brindavan on MG Road (though that's long gone), Iyer Mess in Malleshwaram.

What they lack in choice they usually make up for in taste.

You're right that they have a more traditional ambience and newer restaurants offer more choice, but they are definitely thriving in the parts of Bangalore that I grew up in.

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#12

Post by mindcrime »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #8
jasonpeacock wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about that... Is there a distinction between a restaurant where you can order specific dishes (made to order?) vs a place where you just got whatever is available?

Not anymore in english, because the second went basically completely extinct except a few location- or activity-specific exceptions like food trucks and sport concessions.

I think "cafeteria" as used by outfits like S&W Cafeteria, etc. would have been somewhat close to the idea of "a place where you get what is available", but they have - as you say - mostly gone away. I suppose a "buffet" would also be close, in that you get to pick your food, but you're picking from an array of pre-prepared items with no room for variation for the most-part. As opposed to "made to order".

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#14

Post by jjgreen »

hughdbrown wrote: post #13

> This puzzler, like many other difficult-to-spell food terms (such as hors d’oeuvre), also has its derivation in the French language. That's the whole story: people who don't know French (or any foreign language, likely) cannot spell a French word.

Bouleuques.

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#15

Post by jauco »

jasonpeacock wrote: post #6
decimalenough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term is recent. Places where you can pay for food are ancient.

I was thinking about that... Is there a distinction between a restaurant where you can order specific dishes (made to order?) vs a place where you just got whatever is available?

In the netherlands we use the french term ‘a la carte’ to mean that the restaurant allows you to pick a pre-defined set of dishes. As opposed to having a daily changing menu with maybe a choice between meat/fish/vegetarian which is called “table d’hote” but the latter has gotten a connotation of being less fancy. So if a fancy restaurant does table d’hote they generally call it ‘our concept’ and explain it to every guest as if it’s a unique thing.

I’m guessing the french use the same words. And maybe some english speaking countries as well? Given how pervasive french is around restaurants.

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#16

Post by jauco »

This just pushes the question one step further. Why did the chefs who used to be employed by aristocrats, when they started opening public eating places. Not call them auberge (french for tavern or inn) or cantine or hotel or bistrot or even cabaret (which used to mean small restaurant) but instead picked ‘restaurant’ an, at that time, medical term.

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#17

Post by LudwigNagasena »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #7

Do they also ask for the meaning of entree in this test? Even Miriam Webster has a note that Americans mistakenly use it for main course (completely incorrectly) because French sounds fancier. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entr%C3%A9e#:~:te...

Semantic drift is not "incorrect".

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#19

Post by theultdev »

jauco wrote: post #15
jasonpeacock wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about that... Is there a distinction between a restaurant where you can order specific dishes (made to order?) vs a place where you just got whatever is available?

In the netherlands we use the french term ‘a la carte’ to mean that the restaurant allows you to pick a pre-defined set of dishes. As opposed to having a daily changing menu with maybe a choice between meat/fish/vegetarian which is called “table d’hote” but the latter has gotten a connotation of being less fancy. So if a fancy restaurant does table d’hote they generally call it ‘our concept’ and explain it to every g…

hmm, usually a la carte in the US means you can buy individual items vs a meal combo.

- adjective: (of a restaurant meal) having unlimited choices with a separate price for each item

- noun: a menu having individual dishes listed with separate prices

- adverb: by ordering items listed individually on a menu

Re: What happened to the n in restaurateur?

#20

Post by hoistbypetard »

Damn. My French is pretty solid, and used to be good enough to do well in masters-level French literature classes at a French university in France, back when I was studying that kind of thing on a full-time basis. (I’m a native speaker of American English.)

I’d have incorrectly spelled it with the N when speaking English. When speaking French, the word restaurateur, in my experience, has generally referred to someone who restores things like artworks or buildings. When referring to someone who owns a restaurant, we’d have *always* said propriétaire.

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