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DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

nytimes.com

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Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#911

Post by InfiniteTitan »

cuuupid wrote: post #900
gadders wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>All organizations are inefficient. My company would send people across the world in business class for a few meetings they could do remotely without problem. The difference is that businesses that are inefficient are wasting revenue, and eventually go bust. There is no self-correcting mechanism for government.

There technically is because the interest on the deficit alone is about to exceed total defense spending, over time we will eventually just become a debt slave society paying to other economies. But practically the self correcting mechanism is democracy, our elected officials have been failing us. Like it or hate it, DOGE has gotten farther in 1 month than everyone else conbined incl 5 other agencies over the last 20…

> over time we will eventually just become a debt slave society paying to other economies.

This is categorically false. 70% of our debt is held by US entities.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#912

Post by matwood »

christophilus wrote: post #206
cuuupid wrote: post #84

I think impartial observers have not spent time in actual government bureaucracy. Basically everything will seem like “they’re cutting something important!” Or “they’re stopping critical research!” because every government contract needs justification; so naturally they will all sound good. The data and accounting itself is such bad quality in all cases that it is impossible to be perfect at this; there are entire in…

I spent a few weeks working at a contractor who specialized in VA contracts. I put my two week notice in after the first few weeks. There’s no way I could “work” like that. They had teams and teams of people doing the job of a single person at a normal startup. I’ve never seen such bureaucratic waste anywhere in the private sector. It made my stint at Microsoft look like a lean startup by comparison. I talked to them…

> I spent a few weeks working at a contractor who specialized in VA contracts.

As an aside, you're actually making the argument that we need more federal employees. The push to privatize everything has led to higher costs and more abuse. So DOGE is currently doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#913

Post by BeFlatXIII »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #838
Tade0 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However bad your experience with corporate politics, know that government is 100x worse. Reading your comment I saw so many similarities to any large organisation which I worked for that I can't help but think it's simply on the same level. Hell, my first internship was 100% budget filler and, in line with my role, I was useless. Regarding inefficiency: I'm a contractor for a large organisation and have been for ov…

Makes you think that waste is a universally emergent issue which gets worse with the size of an entity. Not making any distinction between governmental or corporate structures. Everybody cries when the government raises taxes. Yet, when corporations increase prices despite not having higher cost, we just accept it as "business as usual". As corporations rival the power of nations more and more, some people should ret…

In theory, competing firms keep each other honest. In reality, the managers care more about their petty kingdoms than the health of the corporate empire. If theirs goes bankrupt, they use their skills to build a new fiefdom elsewhere.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#914

Post by [deleted] »

pembrook wrote: post #776
sixothree wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s insane watching everyone around me get gaslit into thinking the government is actually efficient. It's equally insane to me that people think the private sector is somehow efficient. The amount of resources used to feed profit alone are a huge waste.

Wild red herring fallacy, I’ll bite. The private sector is indeed filled with lots of inefficiencies, but due to the profit motive and presence of competition, there’s massive incentives to correct those inefficiencies slowly over time. You'll make more profit doing so! Hence, the private sector is constantly self correcting itself and becoming more efficient via creative destruction. You can just look at the numbers…

[deleted]

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#915

Post by DarkNova6 »

skulk wrote: post #887
DarkNova6 wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you think that waste is a universally emergent issue which gets worse with the size of an entity. Not making any distinction between governmental or corporate structures. Everybody cries when the government raises taxes. Yet, when corporations increase prices despite not having higher cost, we just accept it as "business as usual". As corporations rival the power of nations more and more, some people should ret…

> As corporations rival the power of nations more and more See: British East India Company. I don't really have a relevant point to make here but corporations being more powerful than countries actually seems to be the default state that has already been dealt with somewhat, rather than a novel growing problem.

True that. There are plenty of historical companies which have absolutely dominated politics. "Standard Oil" being another example.

What's different in our time, is that it is not just one company, but a whole range of mega-companies (Particularly in technology). It has changed from a few powerful and malicious actors to a systematic problem, fueled by the dynamics of the financial markets and passive investment.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#916

Post by matwood »

cuuupid wrote: post #880
scintill76 wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing up Palantir is funny to me. I don’t know enough gossip on Musk and Thiel’s relationship, but if I did I would bet it would solely determine the outcome of a hypothetical DOGE investigation into Palantir contracts. It seems from a sibling comment I’m not alone. If we’re right, DOGE isn’t going to eliminate government waste and corruption, just move it around. We’re not gaslit into thinking everything was fine…

I think for many people, this is the first exposure to audits and spending reduction in govt. So judging on an absolute scale, yeah DOGE is not doing a great job. Judging on a relative scale to past attempts and the existing 5(!) agencies with the sole purpose of auditing and reducing spending, DOGE looks amazing and has gotten farther in 1 month than everyone else combined over 20 years. It is an immensely difficult…

> DOGE looks amazing and has gotten farther in 1 month

Burning down your house because of a leaky faucet I guess is a strategy, but not one I think we should be undertaking.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#917

Post by smegger001 »

wruza wrote: post #817
SmirkingRevenge wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DOGE isn't really cutting things to fund others. Many of their cuts are going to be net revenue negative. Many will cost taxpayers more of their money. It's about gutting the civil service and staffing them with loyalists that will do what Trump or Musk want, despite what the law says. It's consolidation of power and corruption. Musk is also crippling many of the agencies that enforce regulations on his businesses.

Why doesn’t anyone do anything? They risk ending up as the rest of the world according to this, and everything they do is talking 1k+ threads. If everything people say here is true, US is in its own version of Perestroika.

Who? the democrats? they are a minority party in both houses of congress ass such they cant force anything through committees bring bills to the floor or call witnesses in official congressional investigations.

the federal workers union? they got told they don't have standing in a recent court case only the workers can bring a case despite the fact that the whole point of the union is to represent said workers.

the workers well being fired and told by the court their union can't help they are pretty much out of luck they don't have the money as they had paid it to the union that isn't being allowed to do its job.

the courts? maybe some but thanks to Mitch McConal leading the republicans to block filling many of the open judicial seats as possible they were left unfilled for much of the Obama administration allowing Trump to pack the federal judicial system with supporters during his first administration.

we are in the middle of an auto-coup

at this point the only thing that can stop in the shortish term is the democrats winning the next three special elections and having a 1 vote majority then having no defectors in any consequential vote. but even then that will only allowing the to block legislation not pass any as the republicans will still control the senate.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#918

Post by cropcirclbureau »

cuuupid wrote: post #880
scintill76 wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing up Palantir is funny to me. I don’t know enough gossip on Musk and Thiel’s relationship, but if I did I would bet it would solely determine the outcome of a hypothetical DOGE investigation into Palantir contracts. It seems from a sibling comment I’m not alone. If we’re right, DOGE isn’t going to eliminate government waste and corruption, just move it around. We’re not gaslit into thinking everything was fine…

I think for many people, this is the first exposure to audits and spending reduction in govt. So judging on an absolute scale, yeah DOGE is not doing a great job. Judging on a relative scale to past attempts and the existing 5(!) agencies with the sole purpose of auditing and reducing spending, DOGE looks amazing and has gotten farther in 1 month than everyone else combined over 20 years. It is an immensely difficult…

So what you're saying is that "waste reduction" is such a holy goal that the means justify the ends? Not matter the consequences, no matter the outcomes, no matter the harm.

I think that's where we fundemtally disagree, not to mention your blindness to their stated ideological ulterior motives. Thr Project 2025 document explicitly states it's goal of ultimately replacing federal workers with its cadres that work towards to it's political project.

I'd like to be proven wrong but I have a feeling all of this will never provide any cost benefits to those that aren't the rich. Even if they somehow manage to reduce the taxes on the avg joe, a big if, the Joe will pay for it in other tangible ways. I.e. I don't think it's waste being eliminated but projects the administration disagrees or wants to privatize. Can you address these concerns?

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#919

Post by monocularvision »

kelnos wrote: post #778
carom wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I do not really care about any historical precedent, they take 40% of my money and there is clearly a ton of waste, if not grift. 2. All of those things can be done more efficiently. Drug prices, crappy mega defense contractors, welfare work traps, etc. 3. People eat themselves to death. RFK is going after this problem. 4. I'm in favor of simplifying the tax code and charging a flat tax to corporations, ending tax…

> I do not really care about any historical precedent, they take 40% of my money and there is clearly a ton of waste, if not grift. Er what? The top marginal tax bracket is only 37%, and no one will pay that percentage on all their income. Perhaps you misunderstand how marginal tax rates/brackets work? I was very tax-inefficent a few years ago, and my effective tax rate was still under 25%. Usually it's under 20%, ev…

You are falling into the trap of thinking that federal income tax levels are all that matters. When you account for * Federal AND state income taxes * Payroll taxes (SS & Medicare/Medicaid) * Property taxes * Sales taxes * Car registration taxes You realize that depending on income level, the level of taxation in the US is much higher than the typical numbers thrown about. I have seen estimates but couldn’t find them as almost every search ends up taking me to stories and research doing the exact same thing you mention: federal income tax rates only.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#920

Post by MisterBastahrd »

sarchertech wrote: post #823
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went into the hospital for shortness of breath but my main issue was fluid accumulation. I had 3 paracenthesis procedures and was hooked up to a drip of Lasic and a catheter bag for 20 days. I didn't even recognize that I was in the ICU until I got the bill. They charged $194,000. Insurance claims they paid $193,781. Of that, it was $7300 a day for staying in the ICU. My ambulance ride was $2500 for an 11 minute tr…

>palliative care When you consider that the PE firm that owns her group skimmed half of that off the top, if she met with you for 1.5 hours, she spent at least twice that time thinking about you, ordering meds, completing notes, and answering questions from the rest of the team caring for you, she probably made about $250 an hour or less. Then consider that she accepted liability for you. Which includes the possibili…

The entirety of what she did was record keeping. Palliative care is a broad term, but she did not (a) do any diagnosis, (b) prescribe or change any meds, or (c) treat me in any way. She was basically an extension of the case manager. Our most impactful meeting was when she recorded the names, phone numbers, and associations of my emergency contacts, which had already been done a few days prior. Had she never shown up at all, nothing about my stay or outcome would have changed.

I didn't pay $250 an hour. I paid a thousand an hour. You don't get to arbitrarily eliminate money because it didn't go directly to her. It still got paid.

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