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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#141

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kortilla wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

This sounds a bit like a fantasy or the rules you’re breaking are completely irrelevant. “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand. About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

> if you do something that can result in reprimand.

If it's not obvious if your actions can result in a reprimand, then you can't do the thing, simple as that. Either you have the ownership and can take responsibility, or your boss needs to step up.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#142

Post by lrvick »

I have done this my whole career some companies see it as being over eager, or even insubordinate. Do it anyway, because the companies worth working for will support you self assigning work that needs done, and hire other people capable of doing the same.

Hire people who can self manage instead of hiring managers.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#143

Post by Cthulhu_ »

JackFr wrote: post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

This is why (at least in software), nobody should be able to do anything on their own. The "I will do this" is fine, but it can't go to production without a review and of course automated testing and the like.

Of course, then you create a bottleneck; if you write a MR but nobody reviews it in a timely fashion, nothing happens. But this is where you have to make agreements, and probably on a management level (= team lead, doesn't need to be heavier) about e.g. acknowledging and reviewing within a certain time period.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#144

Post by chgs »

ulfw wrote: post #39
glitchc wrote: post #23

I think this kind of approach, and I've used it in the past, only works in American companies or bosses who are familiar with the American way of business. It can backfire badly if the boss doesn't like it. During a performance review, the boss inevitably labels you as insubordinate and all of the evidence needed was handed to them on a platter. Sometimes asking for permission really is the best way, even in the US.…

This will not work in non-American companies where a boss might actually have a life and not work weekends, or heaven forbids have days/week(s) off.

Works fine in my British company that is almost as old as America, it’s called “out of office”. If they aren’t in the decisions are delegated to someone else.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#145

Post by lrvick »

kortilla wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

This sounds a bit like a fantasy or the rules you’re breaking are completely irrelevant. “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand. About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

if it is possible to do anything that causes irreversible damage as a single engineer, then the fault for any damage is shared with whoever gave a single engineer that much power.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#146

Post by dweekly »

I've found "I presented this project to partners in Risk, Cyber, Compliance, and Legal and received no objection." is quite effective.

People in a large company want to know you're working with the right set of people and that nobody is going to be surprised. At some point if a large enough set of people have seen a project and are aware without objection, folks don't want to try to "push back the tide" and a thing will achieve momentum of its own.

"Gosh if Wendy and Bob and Jill are all okay with this...ehh sure."

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#147

Post by lelanthran »

genewitch wrote: post #138
endofreach wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have expected the downvotes for not being funny. But i would have never thought to be taken serious on this. But thank you for taking the time to explain. (Un-?)fortunately, i have been writing php for years. And my bash/zsh setup is slightly insane. But truly appreciate your sincere response (except the last sentence, which makes me think, the sincerity of your comment is equal to the on of my first comment.…

On desktop I vouch for stuff that's flagged like this. Can't on materialistic. Someone else should, though.

I vouched it. Dunno if it makes a difference unless others do it too.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#148

Post by Etheryte »

JackFr wrote: post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

If your boss has to sign off on everything you do, that's not a boss, that's a micromanager and you're both doing it wrong.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#149

Post by epolanski »

I like to appeal to person interest more.

I'm gonna do X, that should remove some of the arguments in our *insert meeting/discussion" (removes problems from that stakeholder) and speed up this so we're never the blocker when other teams are involved (puts your stakeholder like a pm ahead of his peers and in the corporate rat race).

The more you know the stakeholder (a colleague, a manager, an owner) the more you understand his goals and his pains the more surgical you can be.

E.g.

"I am going to rewrite this in typescript because typed languages are nicer to use" => "I am going to rewrite this in typescript as it will provide a better experience and make hiring easier" (might be important if youre looking for extensive Magento experience in the middle of countryside Germany to drop it and PHP).

"I will only provide feedback under the form on mobile because that's the only screen where they won't see it without scrolling"

=> "I will only provide feedback under the form on mobile so we don't confuse users on desktop and lose sales".

Again, it is very important to understand what drives the particular stakeholder and try to sell general ideas under the light of how it benefits him.

Your website lacks accessibility? Don't appeal to ethics of disabled people. Explain it's your managers head on the line if someone complains due to the EU accessibility act and there's legal responsibilities.

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