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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#101

Post by fmbb »

kortilla wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

This sounds a bit like a fantasy or the rules you’re breaking are completely irrelevant. “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand. About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

> About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

I don’t know why you feel the need to put “design” in there, but what you are describing seems like all rules governing how teams work together in any organization.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#102

Post by ineedasername »

dylan604 wrote: post #83
danmaz74 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, we need to do XYZ by April 1st. Let me know if you think that's a problem.

That’s still ambiguous. There’s no default action listed if no response is given. Listing the default action is your CYA that a non response is approval of the default

Well, the CYA in less healthy workplaces could be to leave things vague, if the person doesn’t respond then do what you want when the time comes, and if anything goes wrong you can pin it on the person who ghosted you on a response. Bonus points if you send that first email and immediately seek an in person response. The other person will then figure an email response is unnecessary, thus guaranteeing your ability to play things however you want.

After you’ve been on the wrong side of this dynamic you learn to always confirm things in writing. And to wait for the other person to go to the bathroom and unplug their desk phone so it looks like they’re ignoring phone calls. At the same time, you use your personal vpn to try a few dozen failed logins to their email from 2 or 3 other continents, then drop a hint to their boss alluding to a vague but urgent problem in their domain so the boss will want to get in touch with them immediately.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#105

Post by notpushkin »

With great power comes great responsibility. People will think you went behind their backs, even though on paper you did everything correctly. If you abuse this trick, you’ll quickly lose people’s trust.

Use it carefully, always give a reason, and set reasonable deadlines.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#106

Post by aiiizzz »

DeathArrow wrote: post #86
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

To whom it may concern, I am planning to leave the company in 20 business days unless I get a substantial raise.

That's the implicit message in a 14 day notice

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#107

Post by motorest »

ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

> “If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days, I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not asking for approval and then helplessly waiting and pinging.

I feel this tone is needlessly confrontational.

You can very well state "II'm going to do XYZ because of [REASONS]. I'm going to do XYZ on [DAY N]. If anyone objects or has any reservations, please reach out to me."

This approach also forces you to present a sound justification beforehand. You might not be aware, but there is always some likelihood what you're hoping to do is a mistake or you're missing out on some key constraints. When you reach out to anyone for feedback, you're hoping to get input to avoid mistakes.

Also, this cargo cult behavior of citing Amazon's leadership principles as if they were a solution to problems is mind-boggling. For example, the reason why "bias for action" works at Amazon is survivorship bias: those who unilaterally take action which results in a failure will ultimately be scapegoated and fired. You won't see those guys posting blog entries on the virtues of bias for action.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#108

Post by Feathercrown »

This is an excellent tool for the toolbox. My company has work from home days but the managers technically have to approve schedule changes/exceptions. Since they almost always approve it, we usually just say "I'll be working from home Tuesday if that's okay" and unless they object, you're good.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#109

Post by endofreach »

ineedasername wrote: post #98
endofreach wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In pearl or php, $variable is standard syntax. Also used in Bash, ruby, R when referencing elements of a list… I’m going to guess the GP didn’t want to give their kid’s name here and decided not to insert a generic Billy in its place. So this being a forum with lots of people experienced in $programming_language it’s common to reference a generic placeholder in variable syntax. Personally, I think comments on HN shou…

I would have expected the downvotes for not being funny. But i would have never thought to be taken serious on this. But thank you for taking the time to explain. (Un-?)fortunately, i have been writing php for years. And my bash/zsh setup is slightly insane. But truly appreciate your sincere response (except the last sentence, which makes me think, the sincerity of your comment is equal to the on of my first comment...).

I just love HN, no downvote can stop me! Ever!

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#110

Post by toxik »

exodust wrote: post #85
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

> "Occasionally someone will come back weeks later, angry that I did XYZ without telling them... " Something fishy about this comment. Apparently you "do this all the time", spelling out the magic phrase you use like a template. Are you sure this is your anecdote and not a projection of how you'd like to be operating at work, as per the main article? I'm trying to imagine the scene where you "show the paper trail" to…

Objection! You don’t have Ace Attorney style court hearings at work where you can ”show the paper trail” as evidence?
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