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Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

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Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#361

Post by stouset »

simpsond wrote: post #301
FabHK wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "oh but there's crime in fiat" argument holds no water. Sure, HSBC facilitated money laundering and drug trafficking in Mexico. And when it came out, the fiat response was a huge outcry and putting a stop to it. The crypto response is to say "screw the laws, let's go all in with money laundering and drug trafficking". It's like noticing that kitchen knives are occasionally used for murder, and then concluding tha…

Fiat currencies have collapsed in the past due to bad monetary policy (regulation is only good right?). Ask Argentinians how they feel about stablecoins after rapid inflation. Alternative currencies offer competition and access. Why is that such a problem?

I’m not sure you want to go down the path of comparing the rate of total failure of fiat currencies vs. cryptocurrencies.

Yet another crypto collapse is in the news every week.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#362

Post by stouset »

desumeku wrote: post #350
FabHK wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and that gold standard failed. Fiat (with a money supply that can be discretionarily managed, and allows for monetary policy) is indispensable to a modern economy.

It didn't "fail". It was gradually dismantled and replaced by a new economic order based on credit.

As a homework exercise, I’d like you to consider just how much gold would be necessary to back the current amount of dollars in circulation.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#363

Post by desumeku »

stouset wrote: post #362
desumeku wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't "fail". It was gradually dismantled and replaced by a new economic order based on credit.

As a homework exercise, I’d like you to consider just how much gold would be necessary to back the current amount of dollars in circulation.

This is a dumb question. The Fed can endlessly print as many dollars as it wants. They could print $20 trillion tomorrow. See? Just think about how much gold would be required to back that $20 trillion! Clearly gold is stupid. Right?

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#364

Post by _factor »

alberth wrote: post #347
_factor wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to become an insider at one of these exchanges even with a couple million dollars. See how it goes. This is like Coke ONLY giving discounts to Costco instead of anywhere else so that Costco can reap the rewards. Walmart, Target, they can all pay full price. The convenience store spends more money to package individual items. A crypto transaction is the difference of a keystroke. They are not comparable on many fr…

Just curious, do you have concerns/issues with progressive discounts? Tier Taker Fee Maker Fee ---------- --------- --------- $0K-$10K 60bps 40bps $10K-$50K 40bps 25bps $50K-$100K 25bps 15bps Everyone is still paying the same full price (for the volume tier they are in). Only those transactions at the higher volume tier get the higher discount (and everyone is eligible for that same discount).

From a capitalist economic perspective, it makes logical sense to maximize your profits and entice wealthier customers with quantity discounts.

From a societal impact perspective, it adds transactions that may not have happened otherwise, but these are mostly isolated effects from what I can tell. This can spur the economy with spending, and be more efficient. Ultimately however, it ensures that those with more money and the ability to buy in bulk lose less money than the tired masses. This should lead to wealth inequality over time.

Without knowing what impact each of these individual variables has in isolation, it’s difficult to define metrics for “net benefit” to society with any real certainty, let alone begin to measure them.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#365

Post by Animats »

zaphodias wrote: post #154
Animats wrote: post #128

Who says ByBit can cover the loss? The article title says that but the article quotes do not. The CEO only said that their other cold wallets are intact and that withdrawals remain normal. Bybit claims to be regulated by the Virtual Assets Regulatory Authority of Dubai.[1] But the lookup page at VARA says they only have "In-principle approval", not a full license. "Applicants holding an IPA are strictly prohibited fr…

> Who says ByBit can cover the loss? CEO on X

Right.

If you have a balance in ByBit, get it out NOW.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#366

Post by LoganDark »

stouset wrote: post #151
LoganDark wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and the existence of financial scams isn't the same for fiat because...?

Have you seen the absurd lengths people have to go to to actually scam people out of significant sums of actual money? It doesn’t even remotely compare and if you can’t acknowledge that, you’re willfully ignorant or a future mark yourself.

> Have you seen the absurd lengths people have to go to to actually scam people out of significant sums of actual money?

i've seen ponzi schemes and gift card scamming and those tend to make a decent amount, i'm not trying to say that crypto is not suck but just that money kind of is also suck, just buy gold, nobody's scamming you out of gold these days

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#367

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

stouset wrote: post #349
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 17 years, USD holders got hacked for 65% of their money (based on gold, or eggs, prices). At the same time, btc holders ... you know.

In 17 years, the value of my traditionally-invested assets (VTSAX) went up 700%. I didn’t risk losing everything to scams. When I forgot my password my brokerage was able to restore my access. When I made a mistake in a transaction I was able to call them and sort it out. Meanwhile, despite the incredible runup of BTC I know precisely zero Bitcoin billionaires. I know people who have theoretical fortunes on hard driv…

You conveniently cherry-picked the low point after the 2008 crash as the starting point for your "went up" calculation. Had you started from the fund's inception in November 2000 and accounted for egg prices, the gain would be a more modest 39.4% over the 24.22-year period. Accounting for the price of gold, that would be a negative -14.7%.

And USD is in the much better shape than most other world fiat currencies, look at Zimbabwe, Argentina, Turkey or Russia.

The difference is that crypto hacks are rare, random and fixable (Bitcoin ETFs have the same brokerage protections), but fiat money hack is universal, systemic and legalized.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#368

Post by FabHK »

alberth wrote: post #347
_factor wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to become an insider at one of these exchanges even with a couple million dollars. See how it goes. This is like Coke ONLY giving discounts to Costco instead of anywhere else so that Costco can reap the rewards. Walmart, Target, they can all pay full price. The convenience store spends more money to package individual items. A crypto transaction is the difference of a keystroke. They are not comparable on many fr…

Just curious, do you have concerns/issues with progressive discounts? Tier Taker Fee Maker Fee ---------- --------- --------- $0K-$10K 60bps 40bps $10K-$50K 40bps 25bps $50K-$100K 25bps 15bps Everyone is still paying the same full price (for the volume tier they are in). Only those transactions at the higher volume tier get the higher discount (and everyone is eligible for that same discount).

They charged consumers on average 155 bp (!), and institutional 4 bp.

So consumers are charged 40x. Nice business. TradFi has wet dreams of margins like that for simple exchange business.

Source: Their 2024 10K, pages 92 and 94, and my calculation.

For 2024, in $bn:

  Transaction   Volume   Revenue   Cut
  Consumer        221      3.43   1.55%
  Institutional   941      0.345  0.04%

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#369

Post by codetrotter »

card_zero wrote: post #180
codetrotter wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bybit shows the history of deletions and creations of the page. The current deletion is for reasons that include lack of NCORP ( Notability (organizations and companies) ). And they back that in turn by saying that the sources are weak. I understand on one side that they don’t want every company in the world to have a Wikipedia page. Because the point of Wikipedia is not to promote or…

It could be resurrected if there are multiple news stories making it notable for being hacked. It would have to be rewritten, though, to give it substantially different content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Speedy_deletion#G4 Here's the discussion from the second time it was deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio... They're basically saying "nah, that's spam". So when it was…

Since yesterday someone has put in the work to make a minimal article that mentions the hack, with good sources (BBC, NYT), and that is now what’s on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bybit

I suppose that over time the article might grow. Either way it’s nice that someone put in the work to make a new article that records this hack.

Just like I would expect Wikipedia to have an article on Enron and their shenanigans, or the Norwegian language version of Wikipedia to have an article about the NOKAS robbery, I think it makes sense that Wikipedia has a record in its articles about the largest crypto hack so far. And that this hack is mentioned in an article about the exchange itself.

Re: Bybit loses $1.5B in hack

#370

Post by KronisLV »

DonHopkins wrote: post #208
acc_297 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^Yep When you decentralize finance like this what becomes okay to do according to system rules is exactly what is possible to do according to system rules. We don't have humans in that loop anymore to enforce moral judgments about what constitutes unlawful theft (except for 1 or 2 rare "hard-forks" of various blockchains to reverse devastating transactions). I feel bad for people who lose large volumes of cryptocurre…

Being doomed to spending millions of real dollars litigating to buy a trash dump full of used diapers and toxic waste, just to dig around in it looking for a hard disk drive for the rest of your life, seems to be a particularly satisfying Sisyphean form of justice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_buried_in_Newport_land...

> After the 2008 bank bailout, Howells considered fiat currencies a "scam", favouring the vision of Bitcoin inventor Nakamoto instead.

I wouldn’t call it justice, it’s more like falling down and instead of being helped up you’re just kicked some more. It feels like a cruel set of circumstances. It does feel like trying to find the drive is also living in denial, given the odds.

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