Live data from Hacker News

Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

mooreds.com

41–50 of 286 posts

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#41
post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

It really depends on the culture of your organisation and how effective management is. If there is nobody that can act like this at your org it shows that your leadership team suffers from failure to delegate.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#42
post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

Yeah this only works for decisions you are basically allowed to make yourself.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#43

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

These days I almost take it for granted that somebody isn't going to read my email, or won't read it thoroughly, or will read it but will fail to acknowledge it. One can use this to their advantage if they want to skirt a hard "no" but as you said, it may backfire.

And the "boss" may have a point: relying on them to read, understand, and acknowledge your email, especially when it's important, is somewhat disingenuous. At the very least one has an obligation to confirm that the recipient actually read and understood what was sent, before taking the default action.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#44
post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

I think this isn't for your superior, it's for lateral people who need to be involved some the work. Like person X in team Y is arguing against something.

If your boss 1. tells you that something needs to be done, 2. refuses to approve any plans, then you just don't do it - in that case it's on them to direct the work in a way that it gets done.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#45
You can even do this kind of thing without going as far as stating that you'll take action unless overridden. It can be as simple as rephrasing a question from a "yes" to a "no", like "Does this work for you?" -> "Do you have any objections?" Even when the request is logically equivalent, people often find it easier to say "no" than "yes".

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#46

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

Agreed, stating a deadline on something that is still just an idea, is weird and aggressive. Usually, a deadline is used to communicate "I have already decided I'm doing this, and received approval/consensus to do it, so now I'm informing you of the fact that I'm doing it."

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#47
post #43

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

These days I almost take it for granted that somebody isn't going to read my email, or won't read it thoroughly, or will read it but will fail to acknowledge it. One can use this to their advantage if they want to skirt a hard "no" but as you said, it may backfire. And the "boss" may have a point: relying on them to read, understand, and acknowledge your email, especially when it's important, is somewhat disingenuous…

One thing I've eventually managed to learn after failing at it many, many times is that in the vast majority of cases an email can only say one thing; if you try to ask multiple questions, or give multiple pieces of information, best case people will actually read one of them. Worst case it'll overwhelm and they'll ignore the whole thing.

It's obviously different if you know the recipient and that they're able to handle more, but my default assumption is that people will read the first 1-3 sentences of an email, so I do my best to keep it to that, and if I have more to say I'll make a note to myself for once they reply.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#48

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

It's also good in that it force a record that someone is blocking / vetoing your progress.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#49
post #23

I think this kind of approach, and I've used it in the past, only works in American companies or bosses who are familiar with the American way of business. It can backfire badly if the boss doesn't like it. During a performance review, the boss inevitably labels you as insubordinate and all of the evidence needed was handed to them on a platter. Sometimes asking for permission really is the best way, even in the US.…

[deleted]

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#50

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

I feel like a deadline on your own actions can also be a courtesy, in the sense that you are communicating the notice window as well as letting someone catching up on old emails gauge how relevant it now is
Post reply on HN