Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes • Hacker News Board

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#21

Post by amritamaz » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:39 PM UTC

mdm_ wrote: post #19

misiti3780 wrote: post #14

I understand that making up quotes is illegal and unethical but is using prior work acceptable as long as you cite it (I'm not a journalist)

I'm not sure I understand how anyone can plagiarize themselves either. Isn't that just called "recycling your own material"? For example, several parts of David Foster Wallace's speech/book This Is Water are pretty much verbatim from Infinite Jest . Or what about authors who are pushing ideologies and repeat themselves a lot? For example, there's a lot of overlap between Ayn Rand's novels Atlas Shrugged and The Fount…

I think the problem was that his deal with the New Yorker meant he would create original work for them. I'm sure it's okay when they are your own books that you sell to publishers, and the publishers are aware of the overlap in content, but in this case he was supposed to be writing new, original pieces for the New Yorker.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#22

Post by dclowd9901 » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:39 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #15

tptacek wrote: post #5

Just in case you're skimming: this comes at the end of a bit of a saga for Lehrer, who had also been discovered "plagiarizing himself", recycling significant chunks of previously-published work in new New Yorker pieces. No doubt there's been a fine-toothed comb running through everything he's done since that first story broke.

At the same time Gladwell (another New Yorker writer) was exposed for being a corporate shill, something quite more serious. Nothing happened.

To what are you referring? And how did this fly completely out of my radar?

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#23

Post by raphman » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:39 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #15

tptacek wrote: post #5

Just in case you're skimming: this comes at the end of a bit of a saga for Lehrer, who had also been discovered "plagiarizing himself", recycling significant chunks of previously-published work in new New Yorker pieces. No doubt there's been a fine-toothed comb running through everything he's done since that first story broke.

At the same time Gladwell (another New Yorker writer) was exposed for being a corporate shill, something quite more serious. Nothing happened.

random source from the Wikipedia article: http://exiledonline.com/malcolm-gladwell-unmasked-a-look-int...

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#24

Post by alecco » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:42 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #20

alecco wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time Gladwell (another New Yorker writer) was exposed for being a corporate shill, something quite more serious. Nothing happened.

No, being a "corporate shill" is not "quite more serious" than fabricating quotes.

Even if that were the case (not IMHO) it's still very bad and Gladwell just brushed it off.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#25

Post by aaronsw » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:47 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #6

The full AP story has more info at the bottom. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iEB7lzn2h8... Among Lehrer's inventions was a quote that first appeared in the famous documentary from the mid-1960s, "Don't Look Back," in which Dylan tells a reporter about his songs that "I just write them. There's no great message." In "Imagine," Lehrer adds a third sentence — "Stop asking me to explain" — that does n…

The details are here:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/107779/jon...

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#26

Post by alecco » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 8:53 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #22

alecco wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time Gladwell (another New Yorker writer) was exposed for being a corporate shill, something quite more serious. Nothing happened.

To what are you referring? And how did this fly completely out of my radar?

Top link from googling "gladwell corporate shill"

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/06/malcolm-gladwell-unma...

Summary:

  * pushed ritalin for big pharma
  * defending tobacco corporations on settlements
  * advocating for financial deregulation
  * and defending Enron executives

Allegedly rewarded $1m/yr for speaking by undisclosed corporations. Significantly more than what he makes as journalist or writer.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#27

Post by astrodust » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 9:04 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

Sad. Too many people operate with the motto 'its not illegal if you don't get caught'. It nearly always turns out badly for them.

Jonah Lehrer famously said "I'll never get caught, you can't catch me." and "If I get caught I'll eat my shoe." At least, that's what I've just made up and attributed to him.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#28

Post by SilasX » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 9:06 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #15

tptacek wrote: post #5

Just in case you're skimming: this comes at the end of a bit of a saga for Lehrer, who had also been discovered "plagiarizing himself", recycling significant chunks of previously-published work in new New Yorker pieces. No doubt there's been a fine-toothed comb running through everything he's done since that first story broke.

At the same time Gladwell (another New Yorker writer) was exposed for being a corporate shill, something quite more serious. Nothing happened.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have affected his popularity, his income, or people's tendency to suspend rational thought and go ga-ga over his latest profundity.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#29

Post by msg » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 9:09 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #14

I understand that making up quotes is illegal and unethical but is using prior work acceptable as long as you cite it (I'm not a journalist)

I don't know the facts here.

In author land, you may have sold the publication rights to the prior work to someone, and you may not have reprint/derivative works rights without a new deal.

You can see rights clearances on the copyright pages of some of your favorite novels, anthologies, and story collections: "Portions of this work appeared in a substantially different form in ANALOG June 2005."

When I see this in magazines and newspapers the credit to prior work is often in italics at the end. I guess I assumed cash (or backscratching) was on the line for them.

Re: Jonah Lehrer Resigns From The New Yorker After Making Up Quotes

#30

Post by acdanger » Mon, Jul 30, 2012, 9:10 PM UTC

mdm_ wrote: post #19

misiti3780 wrote: post #14

I understand that making up quotes is illegal and unethical but is using prior work acceptable as long as you cite it (I'm not a journalist)

I'm not sure I understand how anyone can plagiarize themselves either. Isn't that just called "recycling your own material"? For example, several parts of David Foster Wallace's speech/book This Is Water are pretty much verbatim from Infinite Jest . Or what about authors who are pushing ideologies and repeat themselves a lot? For example, there's a lot of overlap between Ayn Rand's novels Atlas Shrugged and The Fount…

Reminds me of the episode where John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival fame was sued by a former label for recording a song that was too similar to one he had recorded prior with another record label.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogerty_v._Fantasy