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DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

nytimes.com

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Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#571

Post by chasd00 »

pdfernhout wrote: post #518
sxyuan wrote: post #248

For those who want to have a substantive discussion on the federal budget and believe these cuts are justified, I have a few questions (putting aside questions of constitutionality for this thread): 1. There are claims that federal spending is out of control. How do you square that with the fact that spending as a percentage of GDP is only slightly elevated compared to the historical average going back to at least th…

A deeper issue is one I mentioned here on how contractors outnumber US government employees by more than 2-1, quoting experts in public administration: "Washington Monthly "Fire the Contractors": paradoxically add government employees to reduce costs" https://www.reddit.com/r/fednews/comments/1iq66qa/washington... From the article: "Voters are right to want a less bloated and wasteful government. But Elon Musk’s plan…

Well just give it some time, the axe is coming for fed contractors IMO. It’s no secret they cost a lot and Elon hates consultants anyway. I’ve spent the past 5 years in my firm’s public sector practice but am transitioning out over the next 6 weeks. I’m heading to an entirely different practice and bringing the pick of the litter from some of my past projects with me. We’re being welcomed with open arms. I think the writing is on the wall that the fed consulting gravy train is coming to an end.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#572

Post by cuuupid »

brightball wrote: post #543
cuuupid wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 5 different existing agencies within the government that all exist for essentially the same purpose -- to track and audit government spending. None of them have been successful in any capacity over the last 20 years. It's easy to just go online and say "this is wrong these people are idiots" but what is your alternative solution? We have exhausted pretty much every other method at this point, all the big co…

Didn’t he fire something like 200,000 people?

Yes, DOGE is being raked over the coals but only 77k federal employees have taken their severance package. Clinton also famously proposed majority cuts to the federal workforce.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#573

Post by Aeolun »

cwalv wrote: post #502
digitaltrees wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It scales linearly because the same ratio of services to people continues. There aren’t suddenly less kids to educate, less elderly that need health care or less cases in federal court as the population grows. —- As someone that has been in healthcare for 12 years it’s broken because of the corporate structure and administrative state of companies. The payors and providers share the same incentive to raise rates beca…

> It scales linearly because the same ratio of services to people continues That would be scaling with population, not GDP. > The payors and providers share the same incentive to raise rates because they each collect a percentage of premiums This must be an oversimplification. Why would insurers ever reject a claim, or spend time negotiating lower rates, if they're only incentivized to see health costs increase?

> That would be scaling with population, not GDP.

Educating kids the way we did in 1910 would certainly be cheap, but I don’t think anyone in the country is looking for that.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#574

Post by cuuupid »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #554
cuuupid wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 5 different existing agencies within the government that all exist for essentially the same purpose -- to track and audit government spending. None of them have been successful in any capacity over the last 20 years. It's easy to just go online and say "this is wrong these people are idiots" but what is your alternative solution? We have exhausted pretty much every other method at this point, all the big co…

> None of them have been successful in any capacity over the last 20 years. That's nonsense.

GAO, civil OIG's, OMB, CBO, GSA, DoD OIG, Treasury OIG -- none have been successful in any capacity over the last 20 years. This was a bipartisan, consensus take 3 months ago.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#575

Post by SubiculumCode »

christophilus wrote: post #206
cuuupid wrote: post #84

I think impartial observers have not spent time in actual government bureaucracy. Basically everything will seem like “they’re cutting something important!” Or “they’re stopping critical research!” because every government contract needs justification; so naturally they will all sound good. The data and accounting itself is such bad quality in all cases that it is impossible to be perfect at this; there are entire in…

I spent a few weeks working at a contractor who specialized in VA contracts. I put my two week notice in after the first few weeks. There’s no way I could “work” like that. They had teams and teams of people doing the job of a single person at a normal startup. I’ve never seen such bureaucratic waste anywhere in the private sector. It made my stint at Microsoft look like a lean startup by comparison. I talked to them…

You spent a few weeks somewhere and knew all that? Seems doubtful to me.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#577

Post by cuuupid »

aSanchezStern wrote: post #530
leandrod wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who and which would be? Given SpaceX, Trump could have chosen worse.

SpaceX is a government contractor, immediately presenting a conflict of interest.

By the same logic the GAO, OIG's, OMB, and GSA are all government employees, presenting an even more immediate and direct conflict of interest.

BTW SpaceX is a fairly tiny government contractor -- big ones like Accenture and other consulting firms have previously audited spending including their own contracts.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#578

Post by christophilus »

bamboozled wrote: post #287
christophilus wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a few weeks working at a contractor who specialized in VA contracts. I put my two week notice in after the first few weeks. There’s no way I could “work” like that. They had teams and teams of people doing the job of a single person at a normal startup. I’ve never seen such bureaucratic waste anywhere in the private sector. It made my stint at Microsoft look like a lean startup by comparison. I talked to them…

I love the narrative that some how “startups are efficient”. I’ve worked at 6 startups, they basically all failed due to “inefficiency”, burned through money before they made money or were acquired. I’ve worked for one major success story, and that was the most inefficient startup of all, they just had some luck and the founder was a great salesman. We literally hired morons at scale to appear bigger and more success…

I don’t mind startups wasting money unless I’m a seed investor with a vested interest. We all have a vested interest in the way government allocates or misallocates funds. That’s one difference.

The other, as someone else pointed out, is a matter of scale.

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#579

Post by rl3 »

cuuupid wrote: post #533
uses wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you’re 100% correct, these aren’t the right people and these aren’t the right methods. Completely the opposite actually.

There are 5 different existing agencies within the government that all exist for essentially the same purpose -- to track and audit government spending. None of them have been successful in any capacity over the last 20 years. It's easy to just go online and say "this is wrong these people are idiots" but what is your alternative solution? We have exhausted pretty much every other method at this point, all the big co…

>It's easy to just go online and say "this is wrong these people are idiots" but what is your alternative solution?

For starters, these people are in fact idiots. They randomly fired people at NNSA with virtually no warning. What the fuck? [0]

In response to your point: Why throw USDS in the trash? That was a great example of an effective, agile non-partisan tech workforce. [1]

Now federal workers are having to submit to political loyalty tests. [2]

Perhaps their true intentions here aren't really cost savings, if that isn't blatantly obvious already.

>We have exhausted pretty much every other method at this point, all the big consulting firms have also come in and tried to assist, ...

That's like trying to cure cancer with cancer, but on the face of it and not in some clever cutting-edge way.

Actual solutions? Take highly effective organizations and copy them. USDS and JSOC come to mind.

I don't buy it. Shucks, we've exhausted every other method—therefore, the solution here is to hand over the reigns to immature, extremely low caliber people with conflicts of interest that are absolutely massive [3], and whose motivations are questionable at best?

Yeah, no thanks. I dislike government waste and inefficiency as much as the next person, but using the guise of cost cutting to rapidly install loyalists at critical power junctures isn't a good thing. Never mind the flagrant disregard for the law that's taking place as this is all unfolding.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/nx-s1-5298190/nuclear-agency-...

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/doge-engineering-director-resign...

[2] https://apnews.com/article/trump-loyalty-white-house-maga-ve...

[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/11/us/politics/elon-musk-com...

Re: DOGE's only public ledger is riddled with mistakes

#580

Post by cryptoegorophy »

whoitwas wrote: post #561
foxglacier wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a specific thing DOGE did or said they'd do which has those effects or are you just making it up?

DOGE has destroyed several agencies that were investigating his companies including FAA (starlink), FDA(neurolink), NHTSA(tesla). I'm sure there are many more, but these instantly come to mind.

What do you mean destroyed? As far as I know they still exist?
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