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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#971

Post by ideashower »

okeuro49 wrote: post #585
ideashower wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

> Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element This is a joke --right?

Not at all. Bureaucracy isn’t a flaw: it’s how governments function. Civil servants work, usually beyond politics, to keep society running -- from veterans’ healthcare to highway construction. That you, and others, may not realize that points to a really painful reality that people don't see democracy as participatory, but a spectator sport. Elected officials steer, but we -- those in the system -- propel it forward. Or in my case, have.

When systems fail, people step in to fix them. Sometimes, the failure is a person, and their supervisor or colleague is the safeguard. Replacing that with AI/ML is political offloading -- shifting responsibility from elected officials to code that can’t dissent, negotiate, or care. You’re lucky if it can even explain itself.

I know I’m on HN, where this isn’t the prevailing mindset. But public systems aren’t startups. They don’t get to fail. The common good isn’t about efficiency; it’s about endurance. It’s about ensuring society functions for everyone -- not just those with money, power, or influence. Public systems safeguard the commons, whether it’s infrastructure, social services, or even the basic principles of justice. They exist to serve not just the people you identify with, but those you ignore, fear, or even condemn. Bureaucracies, with all their flaws, aren’t meant to be efficient, they’re built to endure.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#972

Post by ideashower »

vixen99 wrote: post #461
ideashower wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

Of course some level of bureaucracy is essential for any human society but your generalization takes us nowhere because it's riven with assumptions about that 'human element'.

It’s HN, I can’t write a full abstract here. Of course, my view is full of assumptions, just as any general discussion of governance is. And dare I say, idealism too. Democracy itself is an ideal -- one that depends on human participation to exist at all.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#973

Post by mempko »

aristocracy wrote: post #767
swat535 wrote: post #587

Setting politics aside for a moment, I find it fascinating that an audit of this scale is taking place within the government. Has there ever been a historical precedent where an external agency thoroughly reviewed all departments, published its findings for the public, and then based decisions on that analysis? Is it really possible to root out governmental fraud using this approach? Fraud and theft exist at every le…

DOGE is not necessarily about fraud. Their summary of cancelled projects for USAID for example is often vague. For example, "$14M for "social cohesion" in Mali." As a reader, I have no context for this program, its impact, or who ran it. I don't even have the ability to discern whether other things were lumped in. Can I guess this was aimed at preventing further in-roads of Al Qaeda? Who knows. An actual cherry-picke…

I am surprised people are comparing what Trump and Musk are doing now to Putin when in reality it's closer to Gorbachev (as you mentioned) and what the Chicago school did under Yeltsin. For those not aware, they cut government programs, reduced regulation, and privatized many government entities. The result was a catastrophic reduction in GDP and people's wealth. If what is about to come something as devastating, I really hope not. A recent example is what Milei is doing and he had similar results, resulting in a large increase of poverty.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#974

Post by jonp888 »

astroid wrote: post #783
jonp888 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating foreign aid seems to be a common cause of neo-conservative movements. Boris Johnson shut down the British equivalent(Department for International Development) and scrapped the commitment to spend 0.7% of GDP on aid. It's simplistic, drastic and brings no specific domestic effect which could be a rallying point for unrest. It's also very easy to come up with rage bait stories of corruption and waste as jus…

Lol you clearly have no idea what a 'neo-conservative' is or their history. Neo-Conservatives were a branch of Democrat wark-hawks who wanted to police the world, that were upset about the pacifist attitude of the Democrats at the time - they emerged in the 60's and managed to largely take control of the Republican party moving forward, peaking under George W Bush. Their founding principal was "Peace Through Strength…

Yes, indeed, I haven't the slightest clue what neo-conservatism is. Thankyou for your informative comment.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#975

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

swat535 wrote: post #587

Setting politics aside for a moment, I find it fascinating that an audit of this scale is taking place within the government. Has there ever been a historical precedent where an external agency thoroughly reviewed all departments, published its findings for the public, and then based decisions on that analysis? Is it really possible to root out governmental fraud using this approach? Fraud and theft exist at every le…

>So here’s my question: if you were in charge of addressing this problem, how would you tackle it differently?

I would not do it differently. Well, probably it's going to be worse (but most measures). DM and EM are being too nice in my opinion.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#976

Post by sebastianconcpt »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #964
eecc wrote: post #201

IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems -- including government -- are always tainted and currently championed by anti-social elites that use them to break apart these collective machines. Bureaucracies are a common good, and it should be in everyone's interest to apply state-of-the-art system engineering to make them as valuabl…

Bureoucracies are invariably the most efficient way to concentrate corruption efforts. There is no better spot to corrupt and make elite unelected decisions. Revolutionaries love to infiltrate these because they can covertly use their profession to move promote designs and budget flows that exlusively forward their mission hidden in complexity. Is a system and everyone here knows what Moore's Law is.

Yes, I meant Murphy's Law.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#977

Post by rad_gruchalski »

imperial_march wrote: post #914
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #795

It will all land in Moscow. Or Beijing. Have fun.

China already had full access (and extracted) all treasury information in a recent cyber attack. Look it up

I’m not interested. I don’t care, I’m on a different continent and we will soon have other problems.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#978

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

The reality is that just because something has been “known for decades” doesn’t mean it has been addressed—especially in government bureaucracies, where inefficiency, inertia, and misaligned incentives often prevent meaningful reform. The persistence of outdated Social Security records, massive waste, and fraud is a perfect example of systemic dysfunction.

The president, as the chief executive, has broad authority to ensure that executive agencies function efficiently and effectively. While there are statutory and congressional constraints, the executive branch is ultimately responsible for implementing policies and running departments. If existing bureaucrats and Treasury officials have had access to this data for years but failed to act, then it is not only within the president’s prerogative but arguably his duty to bring in outside expertise—whether that be Musk or anyone else—to tackle waste and inefficiency.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#980

Post by bzmrgonz »

imperial_march wrote: post #924
bzmrgonz wrote: post #549

call me Naive and paint me a fool, but I do think this is going to go down as Musk's lifetime achievement. Think about it, he has money, he has arguably built great companies, and now, for his masterpiece, he can, and I honestly believe he will.....CURE DEMOCRACY. I want him to succeed, because the next logical giant is CAPITALISM, and that one, in the collective interest of humanity, and planetary survival, needs FI…

I agree. It's nice to hear someone grounded discuss it. A lot of people (particularly on Reddit) have been driven insane by psyops, they can't critically think outside what they are told to think anymore. It's amazing to watch, and also quite sad/scary

I tell you man, this DOGE animal is going to make politicians run scared all over the world. This is the best thing since Science won the climate change fake debate. DOGE is actually draining the swamp, you know how many politicians have promised and even ran full campaigns on reform, or financial austerity, or fighting corruption/big spending/etc. Mark my words, other countries are going to start formulating their own version of DOGE. This is like the upstart BUKELE and his curving of gang violence in record timing (3 years). There are so many nations trying to replicate that because Citizens are asking for their own BUKELE at home.
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