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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#181

Post by Molitor5901 »

MikeKusold wrote: post #178
Molitor5901 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO, it's the wrong choice. Most people do not understand this stuff enough to truly care about, and they just want their devices to work. This is an awful decision by Apple. There's really nothing consumers can do to pressure the British government.

Those people aren’t enabling ADP to begin with.

Exactly. There is a technological disconnect for a lot of people. They accept actions like this because they don't fully appreciate, IMHO, the ramifications. We do, and we must do more to educate people.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#182

Post by haswell »

netdevphoenix wrote: post #116
philsnow wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a false dichotomy. Another choice, however unpalatable to all parties, would have been for Apple to stop doing business in the UK.

Why do pro-privacy tech folks on here act like Apple is some charity? Apple is a business. It won't fight a citizen's fight on your behalf. It is on citizens to use their democratic power to ensure their representatives act as the voting base wants. Apple's goal is to make money. The government is a representation of your will.

> Apple is a business. It won't fight a citizen's fight on your behalf.

Being a business does not remove ethical considerations. And I’m an environment where corporations are considered people, it seems reasonable to expect some degree of alignment with normal citizens.

> Apple's goal is to make money. The government is a representation of your will.

The government is increasingly not a representation of the collective will, and is instead captured by those corporations.

I can’t help but feel the “but they exist to make money” line too often ignores the many ways this is not a sufficiently complex explanation of the situation.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#184

Post by nottorp »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #172
nottorp wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have an Android device beside me that regularly asks me to back my device up to the cloud But is that backup encrypted? If it's not, all they need is to access your data. This is about having access to backups that are theoretically encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have? > We're talking about the largest back door I've ever heard of. Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stor…

> Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stored in the US without any oversight? Er, no...? I'm not sure where you get that idea. Access requires a warrant, and companies are not compelled to build systems which enable them to decrypt all data covered by the warrant. See, for example, the Las Vegas shooter case, where Apple refused to create an iOS build that would bypass iCloud s…

I asked if your Android backup is encrypted. Implies I'm talking about unencrypted data.

> See, for example, the Las Vegas shooter case

I am not in Las Vegas or anywhere else in the US. So as far as i know all the data about me that is stored in the US is easily accessible without a warrant unless it's encrypted with a key that's not available with the storage.

> companies are not compelled to build systems which enable them to decrypt all data covered by the warrant

Again, not what I was talking about.

I'm merely pointing out that your data is not necessarily encrypted, and that the "rest of the world" was already unprotected vs at least one state. The UK joining in would just add another.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#185

Post by palmotea »

GJim wrote: post #38
lrdd wrote: post #15

As a citizen, I don’t understand what the UK government thinks they are getting here - other than the possibility of leaks of the nation’s most sensitive data. Also is it not possible to set up my Apple account outside of the UK while living here?

> other than the possibility of leaks of the nation’s most sensitive data Amusing when you consider the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC, a part of GCHQ), along with the Information Commissioners Office, both publish guidance recommending, and describing how to use, encryption to protect personal and sensitive data. Our government is almost schizophrenic in its attitude to encryption.

> Our government is almost schizophrenic in its attitude to encryption.

Of course: it's not a monolithic entity. It's a composite of different parts that have different goals an interests.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#187

Post by multimoon »

ta8645 wrote: post #135

Free speech already under threat and now y'all are giving up the right of private communication too? For anyone cheering this on, do you honestly think this will only affect the "bad people", and you'll never have your own neck under the government's boot? Even if you trust the government today, what happens when your neighbors elect a government you disagree with ideologically?

I don’t think anyone is cheering this on.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#189

Post by NegativeLatency »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #113
GJim wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other than the possibility of leaks of the nation’s most sensitive data Amusing when you consider the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC, a part of GCHQ), along with the Information Commissioners Office, both publish guidance recommending, and describing how to use, encryption to protect personal and sensitive data. Our government is almost schizophrenic in its attitude to encryption.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, and maybe this is too charged for HN, but looking over at you guys from the US: The US has problems (don't get me wrong, look at our politics, enough said); but the UK seems to be speedrunning a collapse. The NHS having patients dying in hallways; Rotherham back in the popular mind; a bad economy even by EU standards; a massive talent exodus (as documented even on HN regarding hardware e…

Seems like the US is trying to catch up, especially with the whole talent exodus thing and defunding of vital research funding.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#190

Post by burnerthrow008 »

tome wrote: post #90
dmix wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only difference is Apple doesn't hold the encryption keys when you use ADP. In both cases it's encrypted in transit and at rest.

TIL that Apple holds the keys to my iCloud encrypted data!

Yes, otherwise, how would the web interface (iCloud.com) work?
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