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Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

arstechnica.com

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Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it'd hold up, but one could argue that the first amendment was an amendment, and thus changed the constitution, and therefore removed that ability of congress.

The amendments protect the rights as they existed at the time the amendment was passed. I.e. how would the plain text of the text be interpreted by a reasonable person in 1791. E.g., re 2nd, what did militia mean? Thus, the 1A locks in speech rights as they existed in 1791. Because there was no right to slander, or threaten, or commit treason, or "share" in 1791, Congress retained the power to regulate.

>Because there was no right to slander, or threaten, or commit treason, or "share" in 1791, Congress retained the power to regulate.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose and intentions of the constitution. Slander and fighting words are exceptions to the first amendment that were determined through the legislative process.

Essentially the entire US constitution is negative rights - the right to X when X means government NOT doing something. Right to freedom of movement, right to freedom of religion, right to freedom of speech, right to privacy - these are restrictions on government to protect the liberties of the people. And then you come to the tenth amendment -

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

It seems abundantly clear from even a cursory analysis that the founders explicitly designed the constitution to limit and restrict the power of a centralized federal government, as treasonous, violent disregard for a powerful centralized federal government is quite literally the premiere founding principle baked into the US's history.

Congress has zero power whatsoever whenever they lack the consent of the goverened. The functional legitimacy of the entire federal government is near zero - we're living in the orwellian nightmare where the military industrial complex more or less runs the entire show from behind the scenes - something Eisenhower tried to warn us about over half a century ago.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#302
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Plagiarize, let no one else's work evade your eyes. Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes but plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize !" ~ Me

I sung this in the style of System Of A Down for some reason

And now I am infinitely disappointed that there don't seem to be any covers of Tom Lehrer tunes in the style of System of a Down.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a bad thing, increasing the percentage of non-seeding users will likely kill most torrents.

I wasn't making a judgment on whether it is a good or a bad thing. I just did not see it coming. I was expecting lawsuits on AI will get interesting, but I did not expect this.

Yup, we can agree on that one.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m waiting for this precedent to be set in favor of META and then enjoying all the movie torrents I can get my hands on. Without seeding of course.

With Musk in the White House (who has similar interests) that might actually happen.

I don't know Musk but why would he make this happen? He's for corporate interests is he not?

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#306
post #67
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since there is no such thing as training rights, they would have a reasonable claim.

I think it is more reasonable for content owners to say what can and cannot be done with their data. After all, content is what make AI possible, and content owners could easily start their own LLM if they wanted to since a lot of it is open source now.

>I think it is more reasonable for content owners to say what can and cannot be done with their data.

They lose that right as soon as they sell it to other people.

No, you can't sell a book to someone and then sue anyone who reads the book, upside down.

That would be ridiculous. If you don't want someone reading your book upside down, or training on it, then don't sell books.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something like setting a 1 byte per second cap on uploads You generally can't set a client to 0B/s (as zero usually means “no limit”) but I'm not sure a good¹ lawyer on the other side would let you get away with claiming glacial distribution is not still distribution. At 1Kbyte/sec (I don't know a client off the top of my head that has control down to the single byte) a 50MByte file (not unusual for a book with ill…

> I'm not sure a good¹ lawyer on the other side would let you get away with claiming Fortunately that’s not how courts work. I’m not familiar with the case, but it’s possible setting a 1 byte per second limit showed intent to not distribute.

In the context of a book, that could still be seeding a book every few hours..

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#308
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If megacorporations can lie to you about what they're selling you (which is one of the things that free speech absolutists generally argue for), then you will have no way of knowing if what you buy is going to kill you.

I don't know any "free speech absolutists" who argue that fraud should be legal. Misrepresentation of a product or service you're selling is fraud. We already have laws against that.

Then consider yourself lucky, but I've seen that position argued strenuously right here on HackerNews in the past.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#309
post #264
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh. This is not the month to be making that argument. I like having food hygiene standards - it means I don't have to worry about chalk in my bread, arsenic in my sweets, or antibiotics in my beef. I honestly believe we'd be better off with informational hygiene standards, too. The last two decades have taught me this lesson - free speech absolutism is a giant "kick me" sign on the back of society, and when you find…

> I like having food hygiene standards - it means I don't have to worry about chalk in my bread, arsenic in my sweets, or antibiotics in my beef. And yet somehow humanity survived for tens or hundreds of thousands of years without such standards, and without having our ancestors' food poisoned. Also, if you actually believe that government food hygiene standards prevent all possible bad things from being in your food…

> And yet somehow humanity survived for tens or hundreds of thousands of years without such standards

Narrator: "Most humans didn't survive past year five due to preventable illnesses and food born contamination, the humans' ancestor's infant mortality rate was rather high before the age of food safety and soap".

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#310
post #183
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not reasonable, should a child heed the restrictions placed on the 1st grade math book later in life, when they become PhD?

LLMs aren't people

No, but people are the one's training the models.
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