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Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

arstechnica.com

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Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate side effect is that a megacorp gets to vacuum up the sum of human knowledge for free, boil it down, and sell it back to us for a nice profit.

How long before a handful of entities, having already ingested the available content into their proprietary systems, bankroll assaults on Wikipedia and the Internet Archive.

Likely never, as those platforms are continuously updating at no cost to the siphons training their LLMs on them

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't named plaintiffs have the burden of proving meta actually seeded blocks containing their works? How could they ever do that?

The plaintiffs do have the burden of proof, but there are many ways to Rome. Any evidence they can find, whether it be packet captures, client and server logs, incriminating emails, or even admissions, will be proffered to the court and/or jury.

many ways to Rome

Fair enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if none of those methods pan out.

1) Given the timeline, it seems unlikely that anyone was doing a packet capture.

2) Why would anyone at META have been paying attention to, or logging, which blocks were being seeded and which weren't? Who would have personal knowledge such that they could admit that transmission didn't seed the declaration of independence 6 million times?

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#263
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is a couple of times larger than the entire entertainment industry combined...

I think its reversed, and that's just the USA - The U.S. Media and Entertainment (M&E) industry is the largest in the world at $649 billion (of the $2.8 trillion global market) and is projected to grow to $808 billion by 2028 at an average yearly rate of 4.3% (PwC 2024). https://www.trade.gov/media-entertainment Meta Platforms, formerly known as Facebook Inc., continues to dominate the digital landscape with impressi…

Meta's market cap is over $1.7 trillion. Over twice as large as the whole media and entertainment industry.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#264
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple, Americans believe that the individual is responsible for themselves while most of the rest of the world wants to be "protected" by a restrictive government. One leads to innovation and one stifles it. We would rather be responsible for discovering the truth on our own, than trust a central authority to decide what is and isn't true(or propaganda). I find it funny how Europeans think their government…

Heh. This is not the month to be making that argument. I like having food hygiene standards - it means I don't have to worry about chalk in my bread, arsenic in my sweets, or antibiotics in my beef. I honestly believe we'd be better off with informational hygiene standards, too. The last two decades have taught me this lesson - free speech absolutism is a giant "kick me" sign on the back of society, and when you find…

> I like having food hygiene standards - it means I don't have to worry about chalk in my bread, arsenic in my sweets, or antibiotics in my beef.

And yet somehow humanity survived for tens or hundreds of thousands of years without such standards, and without having our ancestors' food poisoned.

Also, if you actually believe that government food hygiene standards prevent all possible bad things from being in your food, I've got some oceanfront property in North Dakota I'd like to sell you. You do know, don't you, that antibiotics in your beef, for example, is done all the time in factory farming with government approval?

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#265
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>free speech absolutism is a giant "kick me" sign on the back of society How does this work? What danger represents freedom of speech? With lack of it dangers is understandable: it is a giant "welcome" sign for bloody totalitarian dictatorship.

If megacorporations can lie to you about what they're selling you (which is one of the things that free speech absolutists generally argue for), then you will have no way of knowing if what you buy is going to kill you.

I don't know any "free speech absolutists" who argue that fraud should be legal. Misrepresentation of a product or service you're selling is fraud. We already have laws against that.

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"distribution is the act protected by copyright" was the rule all along in many (non-US) jurisdictions, not an American so not sure about how the US does things. This is why you often see people getting fines for torrenting (Germany is extremely notorious for this for example), but fines for using Usenet, IPTV, streaming or book download services are a lot more rare (which doesn't mean they're nonexistent)! Operating…

> something like setting a 1 byte per second cap on uploads You generally can't set a client to 0B/s (as zero usually means “no limit”) but I'm not sure a good¹ lawyer on the other side would let you get away with claiming glacial distribution is not still distribution. At 1Kbyte/sec (I don't know a client off the top of my head that has control down to the single byte) a 50MByte file (not unusual for a book with ill…

transmission-cli -u 0

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't named plaintiffs have the burden of proving meta actually seeded blocks containing their works? How could they ever do that?

Company emails, internal server logs.

Server logs of what? Transmission doesn't log which blocks it seeded. Does any client?

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#268
post #120
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sites indexed often don't explicitly allow it. I can see my website in the index of web search engines that I never opted in to. I'm not unhappy about it; but was never consulted.

Linking is different from copying, and fortunately the last case I remember allows it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticketmaster_Corp._v._Tickets.... .

But how did can Google index a site without copying it to their servers?

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(note; not a lawyer) It depends on if a model is a derivate work from it's source material or not. If yes, then all copyright protections come into force. If not, then the author can't rely on copyright to protect themselves. My instinct/gut says that an AI model is a derivative work from the training data (in that it quite literally takes training data to produce a new creative output, with the "human addition" bein…

Understood, Was there any conclusion to the past copy right cases that have been filed against open ai / anthropic ?

All still pending as far as I'm aware. The only concluded lawsuit is that LAION isn't responsible for how AI companies use it's dataset and that merely providing a tagged image index isn't in and of itself copyright infringement (and that lawsuit was ruled in Germany, not the US.)

Re: Meta claims torrenting pirated books isn't illegal without proof of seeding

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple, Americans believe that the individual is responsible for themselves while most of the rest of the world wants to be "protected" by a restrictive government. One leads to innovation and one stifles it. We would rather be responsible for discovering the truth on our own, than trust a central authority to decide what is and isn't true(or propaganda). I find it funny how Europeans think their government…

This approach is great in theory, the problem is: it does not scale. We are bombarded with a lot of information in the news, ads, social media, and average individual does not have enough time (not to mention access to information, or intelligence to interpret it) to fact check everything on their own. "The last man who knew everything" lived in early 19th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Man_Who_Knew_…

You don't need to fact check the torrent of information you describe. You can just ignore it. None of it is worth the time and effort to fact check anyway. You don't need any of that information to make the decisions you need to make in your daily life.

If you want to argue that you need to fact check all that information to, for example, decide how to vote in elections, none of that information is of any value for that purpose either, because it's basically all propaganda at this point. There are no "independent" sources of information that you can trust, other than your own eyeballs and brain. (Possibly you are lucky enough to have some friends and family whose eyeballs and brain you can also trust.)

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