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DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

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Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#71

Post by lompad »

andy_ppp wrote: post #61

How do the valuations of foundation model companies compete with them being firmly open sourced by Facebook and DeepSeek? It seems likely that building these models will not produce hundreds of billions in value given China and Facebook are giving them away largely for free.

Those valuations are built on an imaginary future the founders made investors believe.

The idea is: if we reach true AGI first, we are going to own ALL THE MONEY!

Which erroneously assumes that models can't be siphoned off/recreated, as deepseek proved possible and even reasonably doable. Which in turn fundamentally shows that both openai and anthropic very likely have basically no moat.

I can almost smell another AI winter arriving, once all those valuations meet reality.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#72

Post by lompad »

rfoo wrote: post #66
antupis wrote: post #7

Kinda interesting to see where the moat is in AI space. Good base models can always distilled when you have access to API. System prompts can get leaked, and UI tricks can be copied. In the end, the moat might be in the hardware and vertical integration.

Why do we need a moat?

_We_ don't. Investors do. Because without being able to gatekeep the rest of the world, there is little money in LLMs.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#73

Post by anticensor »

deyiao wrote: post #65
vineyardmike wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DeepSeek is a small company that made a lot of money from other businesses, which makes their lack of focus on commercial interests feel more genuine. Google also made a lot of money from other businesses that aren't AI models, until they started selling AI models, just as DeepSeek now does. The reality is that DeepSeek is a full company, that was funded as a spin-off from the original business (a hedge fund that u…

But the fact that they were donating huge sums every year even when they were still unknown really says something. If they were purely profit-driven, there’s no way the shareholders would have allowed that.

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#76

Post by seattleeng »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #27
deyiao wrote: post #21

I really admire their mindset of striving for the betterment of humanity. There was a time when OpenAI, Anthropic, and even Musk used to talk with that same lofty vision. But now, they've all shifted to competing for national interests instead, which is honestly quite disappointing.

Well, it’s a highly effective PR tactic that works well for the small fish. You say your competition is too selfish and you just want to help people and it creates a bunch of goodwill you can use to grow. Once you grow, your view on things changes, and you’re able to be more selfish. It’s not guaranteed things will go that way, but it’s certainly true that this is a good PR tactic for new entrants in to a crowded fie…

literally how openai attracted talent with deepmind as the boogeyman. its a playbook that works

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#77

Post by notum »

nsoonhui wrote: post #55
t24uo2i34j324l wrote: post #45

Deepseek seems to be having huge PR wins as the "oh shucks" modest boy genius, while the Americans seem like pouty jerks. Amodei's / Hassabis' comments in particular came off as so arrogant and annoying.

>> Amodei's / Hassabis' comments in particular came off as so arrogant and annoying. Exactly which part of their writings comes off as arrogant to you? The only point in Amodei's article[0] that could be remotely be interpreted as arrogant is this: All of this is to say that DeepSeek-V3 is not a unique breakthrough or something that fundamentally changes the economics of LLM’s; it’s an expected point on an ongoing co…

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#78

Post by ramon156 »

kgh1337 wrote: post #44
thundergolfer wrote: post #15

“Pure garage-energy” is a great phrase. Most interested to see their inference stack, hope that’s one of the 5. I think most people are running R1 on a single H200 node but Deepseek had much lower RAM per GPU for their inference and so had some cluster based MoE deployment.

[flagged]

You know you're doing well as a company when someone uses bots to boycott

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#79

Post by tw1984 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #50
deyiao wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I know, DeepSeek is a small company that made a lot of money from other businesses, which makes their lack of focus on commercial interests feel more genuine. Plus, even back when they were relatively unknown, they had a habit of donating over $100 million annually to charitable causes. That makes their claim of striving for humanity a lot more believable.

> DeepSeek is a small company that made a lot of money from other businesses, which makes their lack of focus on commercial interests feel more genuine. Google also made a lot of money from other businesses that aren't AI models, until they started selling AI models, just as DeepSeek now does. The reality is that DeepSeek is a full company, that was funded as a spin-off from the original business (a hedge fund that u…

> The reality is that DeepSeek is a full company, that was funded as a spin-off from the original business (a hedge fund that used its large GPU stockpile to pick stocks via ML). The company DeepSeek is owned by the hedge fund CEO not the hedge fund. It exists as a business aiming to make money, not as a pet project for another business.

Of course they want money, lots of money, tons of money is required for hiring engineers and paying for its hardware. However, your claim that DeepSeek's exists is to make money is just your guess back by nothing else but your wild guess.

DeepSeek CEO Liang Wenfeng himself is an engineer, he is the co-author/developer of the DeepSeek model, he helped but not listed as a core contributor. Obviously that is not a smart strategy to spend your CEO hours to maximize your $ return. His interview a few months ago actually gave answers to all these, he is seeking for AGI. That is the motivation, that is why DeepSeek exists.

Re: DeepSeek Open Infra: Open-Sourcing 5 AI Repos in 5 Days

#80

Post by runlevel1 »

deelowe wrote: post #14
antupis wrote: post #7

Kinda interesting to see where the moat is in AI space. Good base models can always distilled when you have access to API. System prompts can get leaked, and UI tricks can be copied. In the end, the moat might be in the hardware and vertical integration.

How many times have we been down this path? Tcp/IP, dos/windows, Linux, virtualization, and on and on. Open platforms always seem to find a way to usurp everyone else. In the end, it's better to be a service provider.

Open source finds a way.

Good enough + open (and free) is a very appealing proposition.

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