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How to be a growth hacker

andrewchen.co

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Re: How to be a growth hacker

#51

Post by b0rsuk »

chimi wrote: post #17

"Software is eating everything" even traditional employee roles in organizations. People who can automate will always win, because they can do more in less time. I remember once when I was consulting, I was on the bench for a few days and the marketing group contacted me to help aggregate and validate multiple lead lists. They had been working on it for days, copy/pasting record after record from multiple excel sheet…

This sounds very uplifting, but when I worked at an enormous corporation you've heard about we weren't allowed so much as to change my machine's time&date. Forget about installing anything. And even when I was able to improve anything (I got permission to install Python), there was a huge bureaucracy and permission had to be granted for anything. Just because you had an idea for improvement doesn't help if you have to mail a person on another continent, who must understand what you're doing and grant permission.

It's not uncommon for company critical software to be written by a Russian guy who no longer works there.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#52

Post by nl »

freshhawk wrote: post #41
nl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means that technical marketers are not growth hackers, they are good marketers who are keeping up to date with what's needed to do their job. But it's more than that. A growth hacker invents hacks as a way to grow - clever, non obvious methods that drive adoption. Things like the Reddit sockpupperts, the Dropbox two-sided incentive system or the Yammer variation of the Freemium business model are all things wher…

It's called marketing, those are just new techniques. The goals are still the same, the things that work well are just changing a lot. Remember the distinction a few years ago when marketers using the internet were called Internet Marketers? How many people in marketing don't touch the internet with any of their campaigns now? Now that's just called marketing. It's perfectly fine to be interested in the new marketing…

It's called marketing, those are just new techniques.

Yes, and what Mel did was just programming[1], and calling it hacking was just rebranding by ESR to fit into his idea of what a hacker should be.

I stand by what I'm saying: You don't learn to reverse engineer Craigslist's forms in marketing courses.

[1] http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#53

Post by freshhawk »

nl wrote: post #52
freshhawk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called marketing, those are just new techniques. The goals are still the same, the things that work well are just changing a lot. Remember the distinction a few years ago when marketers using the internet were called Internet Marketers? How many people in marketing don't touch the internet with any of their campaigns now? Now that's just called marketing. It's perfectly fine to be interested in the new marketing…

It's called marketing, those are just new techniques. Yes, and what Mel did was just programming[1], and calling it hacking was just rebranding by ESR to fit into his idea of what a hacker should be. I stand by what I'm saying: You don't learn to reverse engineer Craigslist's forms in marketing courses. [1] http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

There are no fields where the newest practical techniques are taught in courses. Those are invented in the field and trickle down.

I'm not saying it's not impressive or not being done by the best marketers. Not at all. I thought that was clear. There all talented people in every profession, that's what people do.

I'm saying that it won't be called "growth hacking" in a short time and it will go on the buzzword bingo card and will only be used ironically. And I wish the community who read about these great marketers saw through the pandering and childish "growth hacking" term as a (successful and well done) branding attempt.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#54

Post by waterlesscloud »

jfarmer wrote: post #43
jfarmer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, growth hacking is something new. Or rather: "growth hacking" is a term people are using to describe a genuinely new phenomenon. You can trace this phenomenon back maybe 10-12 years, but there is something interesting happening -- interesting enough that people feel the need to coin a term to describe it. Andrew's example is a good one. AirBnb grew in part by piggy-backing off a pre-existing platform (Craigslist)…

It's not entirely new, no, but it's new like the iPhone was new. None of the component ideas in the iPhone were 100% new, but it wasn't possible to build one at a consumer price-point until certain preconditions, both technological and economic, were met. I'd claim this: marketing more than most disciplines lives or dies by the state of communication technology. The best marketers in any generation know how to use th…

In a thread extolling the virtues of Reddit's early sockpuppets and AirBnB's Craiglist games, it's a bit much to try to claim "growth hackers" are superior to old-tymey hoaxes, whatever their facility with bits'n'bytes.

I'm not saying such approaches don't have their place, but you can't on the one hand look down on similar tricks in the past and then on the other claim that performing them in new channels somehow make them better.

Also, PT Barnum was much more than hoaxes. Seriously, read up a bit.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#55

Post by jfarmer »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #54
jfarmer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not entirely new, no, but it's new like the iPhone was new. None of the component ideas in the iPhone were 100% new, but it wasn't possible to build one at a consumer price-point until certain preconditions, both technological and economic, were met. I'd claim this: marketing more than most disciplines lives or dies by the state of communication technology. The best marketers in any generation know how to use th…

In a thread extolling the virtues of Reddit's early sockpuppets and AirBnB's Craiglist games, it's a bit much to try to claim "growth hackers" are superior to old-tymey hoaxes, whatever their facility with bits'n'bytes. I'm not saying such approaches don't have their place, but you can't on the one hand look down on similar tricks in the past and then on the other claim that performing them in new channels somehow ma…

I didn't claim they're superior. I asked: "Why is it so crazy to think that [growth hackers] are perhaps best adapted to this new environment?" Are fish superior to dogs because they can stay underwater their whole lives?

I also never said PT Barnum was nothing more than hoaxes. Nor am I sure how other people's commentary on Reddit and AirBnB's respective growth strategies does anything but reinforce my point, viz., we live in a world where huge marketing channels are being created every year and (for now) engineers rather than traditional marketers are best suited for taking advantage of them.

Was it traditional marketers who planned and executed those strategies? Even if they had planned it, could they have executed it?

At this point I'm not sure whether you're deliberately misunderstanding me, but I've been as explicit as I know how. I'll have to leave it at that.

As for reading recommendations, I own both his autobiography and "The Art of Money Getting." Is there something else you'd recommend?

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#56

Post by waterlesscloud »

jfarmer wrote: post #55
waterlesscloud wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a thread extolling the virtues of Reddit's early sockpuppets and AirBnB's Craiglist games, it's a bit much to try to claim "growth hackers" are superior to old-tymey hoaxes, whatever their facility with bits'n'bytes. I'm not saying such approaches don't have their place, but you can't on the one hand look down on similar tricks in the past and then on the other claim that performing them in new channels somehow ma…

I didn't claim they're superior. I asked: "Why is it so crazy to think that [growth hackers] are perhaps best adapted to this new environment?" Are fish superior to dogs because they can stay underwater their whole lives? I also never said PT Barnum was nothing more than hoaxes. Nor am I sure how other people's commentary on Reddit and AirBnB's respective growth strategies does anything but reinforce my point, viz.,…

If you've read those books, do you not see that he was taking advantage of the way the world was changing in his time? That he was being quite creative in finding new opportunities to reach people?

That's the entire point here. That taking advantage of new opportunities in marketing is absolutely nothing new. It's what has always been done.

Since we're going down the road where you question my sincerity (seriously, does that ever work?), I'll also point out that you selectively quoted yourself. The second half of the sentence, which is still right there in your original post after all, very clearly has a tone that Mr. Bits'n'Bytes Growth Hacker is superior to the oldster Hoaxer who spread through "poorly fact-checked newspapers".

Come now, you have enough facility with language that you must know quite well what you were doing there.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#57

Post by wtvanhest »

jarek wrote: post #38
wtvanhest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most likely they will be at google designing trucks that drive themselves and pick up their own garbage.

Holy liability Batman! Self driving cars are bad enough, and people get in them voluntarily and they aren't designed to crush-compact what they pick up.

I disagree, I'd rather have a computer driving a trash truck than a tired human being at 4AM.

Depending on where you live and how involved unions are, they already have trash trucks that do not require a human to pick up the garbage. The driver activates a mechanical arm as it picks stuff up.

Unions will be the problem with a lot of the robotic implementations.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#58

Post by jfarmer »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #56
jfarmer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't claim they're superior. I asked: "Why is it so crazy to think that [growth hackers] are perhaps best adapted to this new environment?" Are fish superior to dogs because they can stay underwater their whole lives? I also never said PT Barnum was nothing more than hoaxes. Nor am I sure how other people's commentary on Reddit and AirBnB's respective growth strategies does anything but reinforce my point, viz.,…

If you've read those books, do you not see that he was taking advantage of the way the world was changing in his time? That he was being quite creative in finding new opportunities to reach people? That's the entire point here. That taking advantage of new opportunities in marketing is absolutely nothing new. It's what has always been done. Since we're going down the road where you question my sincerity (seriously, d…

"Very clearly."

Well, ok. I don't think that: I've known growth hackers who have done incredibly shady, unethical, and borderline illegal things. The Reddit and AirBnB examples are probably a ~4 on a 1-10 scale of stunts growth hackers pull.

I'm not sure what you're hoping to get by continuing, but I'm ready to stop. Later!

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#59

Post by _gd3l »

freshhawk wrote: post #47
_gd3l wrote: post #20

The last thing the tech world needs is people walking around calling themselves "growth hackers". Actually, the last thing the tech world needs is stuff like this, from the article: If a startup is pre-product/market fit, growth hackers can make sure virality is embedded at the core of a product. After product/market fit, they can help run up the score on what’s already working. Stop making up "markets" and "niches",…

This attitude annoys the creative person in me as well, who loves writing software. But you can't be mad at the business people moving in, optimizing the process because they got into the business because they saw an opportunity to make money. I'm sure tv writers felt the same way about the first rise of infomercials and televangelists. Hucksterism works and it's good capitalism. And it always annoys the creative peo…

You can definitely be mad at them.

If they're stupid and sacrificing the quality of the actual art/software/website/thing, that's not good. It's easy to get mad at this.

And when there's so many of these types of people doing so much damage and causing so much waste, that's really not good. It's very easy to get mad at this.

Re: How to be a growth hacker

#60

Post by freshhawk »

_gd3l wrote: post #59
freshhawk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude annoys the creative person in me as well, who loves writing software. But you can't be mad at the business people moving in, optimizing the process because they got into the business because they saw an opportunity to make money. I'm sure tv writers felt the same way about the first rise of infomercials and televangelists. Hucksterism works and it's good capitalism. And it always annoys the creative peo…

You can definitely be mad at them. If they're stupid and sacrificing the quality of the actual art/software/website/thing, that's not good. It's easy to get mad at this. And when there's so many of these types of people doing so much damage and causing so much waste, that's really not good. It's very easy to get mad at this.

True, I didn't phrase that well. It's easy to get mad at it but you are mad at capitalism and human nature.

Since I have decided not to take these things on, I find it better to not get mad at them but to remain detached.

I can constantly be angry about the hucksters and not do anything about it or accept it as an inevitable outcome of the systems I live in and not do anything about it. This doesn't mean I don't admire/support those who have decided to attack these problems.

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