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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#501

Post by JohnHaugeland »

lenerdenator wrote: post #480
sanderjd wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always . Both the Digital Service and 18F appear to be (to have been...) good faith efforts to apply state of the art system engineering to the federal bureaucracy, and quite successfully. This is just one administration co-opted by one anti social elite to do the opposite. Don't extrapolate it out. Place blame where blame is deserved.

I don't think it's just one, unfortunately. It's not even much of a co-opt; more just an inevitable progression of the ideology that was held by that administration since the beginning.

Trump tried to make DOGE, and was slapped down by congress, so he took an existing department, removed all the people, switched it to do a different job, moved it to a different state, and replaced its name.

It's not just a co-opt; it's a complete replacement. DOGE is in no sense USDC; it's just wearing its skin.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#502

Post by evilduck »

jcranmer wrote: post #476
justin66 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems They're just firing people at random, they haven't discovered any innovative new way to make systems more efficient. ("at random" is a bit generous and ignores the retaliation against political adversaries)

From the reporting I've seen, they're not firing "at random", they're firing more or less every single new hire they can, because new hires have less protections than more established employees.

You need to find more reporting then. It's both, and more, and worse. The folks fired at DOE's NNSA were not exclusively probationary employees. DOGE doesn't even know the function of the departments they're eliminating. It's not evident they even know _what_ they're eliminating. See the "find and fire" approach to the word transitional. Oops... turns out that one's used in more than the context of gender.

Even firing all probationary employees explicitly _for cause_ when there's no evidence of performance problems with most of them is worse than random, it opens them up to legitimate legal backlash. Have you ever worked anywhere where the last two years of hires were all just completely worthless as employees? Of course not, that's basically impossible. Eliminating these people would have been harsh but understandable if it were said to be done for simple budget reasons, because yes they indeed are in a vulnerable less protected situation, but to call them all poor performers at the same time is worse than random, it's an obvious and transparent lie.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#504

Post by [deleted] »

gattr wrote: post #451

Perhaps the whole situation will finally convince the "I don't mind, I have nothing to hide" crowd about the need to scrutinize & limit as much as reasonably possible the personal data collection and retention by government and other entities. What good are rules, statutes, checks & balances, passwords and ACLs, if at some point someone you don't like or trust can just come in "as a root" and circumvent everything?

[deleted]

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#506

Post by mrguyorama »

borgster wrote: post #216

The President is the head of the executive branch. If _anyone_ in the executive branch has access to information, it feels like the presidents office should too. Why is this hard to accept?

If the CEO of my ecommerce company had easy, unmonitored access to all our data, we would fail industry audits and not be allowed to take credit card transactions. Sure, they have access if they really need it, but it's logged and monitored, and if you use it too much there will be questions.

It's a joke that any of you assholes are defending this. This does not pass any sniff test.

Stop making excuses.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#507

Post by JohnFen »

dionian wrote: post #458
ideashower wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracies are a “common good” because of their human element: the ability to exercise discretion, recognize unique circumstances, and be held accountable to the public they serve. The challenge is harnessing technology while strengthening these essential human capacities. Anything otherwise erodes public trust and sows division.

I don't think unelected bureaucrats should have more power than the elected leaders of the Executive. Try the "shoe on the other foot" principle: Imagine if Trump put lifetime leaders in those agencies and they fought against the next Progressive president.

> I don't think unelected bureaucrats should have more power than the elected leaders of the Executive.

It depends on which bureaucrats we're talking about. Most agencies are the creation of congress, and the executive should have minimal power over them. The president's job is to implement the laws of the legislature.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#508

Post by lithos »

pkdpic wrote: post #478

Is this the sort of data that could be useful in training LLMs or in terms of demographic data that would be valuable to advertisers?

DMVs already sell your demographics and contact information to advertisers. Along with attempts at making this illegal being stopped by Washington (IE Washington considers it their free speech to call you with the bought information).

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#509

Post by moffers »

I can understand feeling wary because someone may be watching your work, but conceivably this was always the case? I know it’s uncomfortable having this agency with no oversight gaining access to systems within the government, but it’s got to be huge right? I’m sure Elon’s tapped some smart fellas to be bulls in this china shop, but there’s no way they can put an eye on every single piece of information that flies through all of the systems of the federal government. You’d need a huge staff, tools to be built, never mind trying to solidify all those interfaces.

It seems more likely that they’ll gain access to all these systems, be completely overwhelmed about what to do, and then do small things that wouldn’t actually have an impact but would gain headlines, and then call it a day.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#510

Post by oooyay »

jcranmer wrote: post #476
justin66 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems They're just firing people at random, they haven't discovered any innovative new way to make systems more efficient. ("at random" is a bit generous and ignores the retaliation against political adversaries)

From the reporting I've seen, they're not firing "at random", they're firing more or less every single new hire they can, because new hires have less protections than more established employees.

The people they fired at the VA weren't probationary and one of the first changes they made to the VA was removing gender identity from the account information.

This isn't about efficiency, money, or employees. It's about power and the consolidation thereof. They will have ransacked the VA and the American people not only gave them the keys but they cheered them on.

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