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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#101

Post by matwood »

scarab92 wrote: post #46
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USAID was funding the StarLink deployment in Ukraine and was reexamining the deal[1], likely to try to negotiate a cheaper plan or to reduce the funding. My opinion is that it likely hit his ego a bit and it was a really sweet deal for StarLink, so losing out on it would suck. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/usaid-elon-musk-starlink-probe-ukra...

[flagged]

It had little to do with the contract size. Starlink was being investigated to determine how the Russians were getting/using them.

https://www.newsweek.com/usaid-elon-musk-starlink-probe-ukra...

This raises a potential conflict of interest, as Musk's company was under investigation by USAID shortly before he began calling for the shutdown. Starlink's activity in Eastern Europe has been criticized, with many Russian operatives claiming to have access to Starlink despite Musk's assurances that only Ukraine was using the service.

Additionally, in September last year, Ukrainian forces downed a Russian drone that had a Starlink terminal integrated with its systems, raising questions as to how secure Starlink's operations during the Ukraine war are.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#102

Post by ZeroGravitas »

karel-3d wrote: post #93

Honestly when DOGE was first announced, I thought it will be a tiny department that does almost nothing and produces recommendations and PDFs that nobody reads. I didn't expect this.

There were signs but people thought it implausibly stupid:

> Vice-president JD Vance has cited Yarvin as an influence, saying in 2021, "So there's this guy Curtis Yarvin who has written about these things," which included "Retire All Government Employees," or RAGE, written in 2012. Vance said that if Trump became president again, "I think what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice: Fire every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, and replace them with our people. And when the courts stop you, stand before the country and say, 'The chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.'"[17][52]

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#105

Post by RichardLake »

drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

The enforcement of these laws should be a function of the executive. There are ways for the supreme court or congress to intervene when the executive isn't doing their job. Sadly that requires them to believe a series of checks and balances is necessary.

Given that it is down to the voters, and they thought a racist, rapist, conman should be president giving them the power of the executive - which has been growing increasingly powerful for my adult lifetime.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#106

Post by intended »

drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

The most distressing thing I learned in the past 3 ~~Years~~ edit: months,, was how MUCH laws are about norms.

Norms, are basically the way laws work in the real world.

I despaired, because this is natural to lawyers, and alien entirely to the layperson.

No one is going to think Justice, and then accept “Oh, our norms are how laws work”.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#107

Post by conradev »

snickerbockers wrote: post #37
drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

[flagged]

My understanding is that everyone takes the same oath of office to the constitution, not their boss:

> The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution …

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#108

Post by trymas »

mandmandam wrote: post #56

The moment they had physical access to the system, it was necessary to assume this. It's called an 'evil maid' attack, and of all communities this one should have been blowing the whistle. Loudly, repeatedly, and in open defiance of people who argue that this is a storm in a teacup, a non issue, just another MOT, etc. Especially when you look at the background of the Doge team - 'ex' hackers, 'security specialists',…

> Perhaps surprisingly, the CEO of YC and Paul Graham have been publicly supportive of the DOGE team, despite all the racism and existential threat. I don't know if that's from fear, or greed, but there are strong arguments for both.

> …

> If discussing this openly and often this isn't possible due to very simple flag abuse, then what is this community actually even worth.

Just want to add to this topic that HN advertises YC AI Startup school: https://events.ycombinator.com/ai-sus - where Musk is listed as a first speaker.

Though it doesn’t surprise me - YC is in the same circle of radical technocrats (a16z, Altman, Musk, etc.) and hosted Balaji talking about dystopian plans about techno-authoritarian city states 10 or 15 years ago.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#109

Post by ReptileMan »

drowsspa wrote: post #18

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

There is no constitutional way the president to not have access to any data in the executive branch. And since doge is reporting to him - it just send the data to the president and he will forward it to whomever he pleases.

Even the concept of independent executive agencies is probably more vulnerable constitutionally than more people think.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#110

Post by maCDzP »

European here, giving my two cents on how this looks from the other side of the Atlantic. Heh

In my country there are laws stopping agencies doing a simple SQL join between two databases, even within the same government agency. There is a separate agency that handles the requests when agencies want to join information.

I am not an expert in the matter. But my gut is telling me that our experiences with east Germany and Stasi left a scar.

It can quickly turn into a real nightmare, and there for there are check and balances to make it slow. It’s deliberate inefficiency.

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