This is the “move the factories to third world countries so that we can have cleaner air and water while consuming endlessly, pretending the consumption doesn’t come with problems or that the third world countries are the problem” equivalent of data centers.
>move the factories to third world countries so that we can have cleaner air and water You do know there are latency issues when servicing the Western countries from Asia, right? make it make sense.
Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
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Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#32I guess the thesis is that Singapore is the primary business hub in SEA, but Singapore doesn't have a grid that can handle large scale data centers (especially with power hungry GPU demand). Logically Johor bordering Singapore is the next best option for data centers.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#33I listened to the SemiAnalysis folks on the Lex Fridman podcast: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1f-o0nqpEI They claimed that the fact that Singapore imports so many GPUs despite a moratorium on data centers was evidence of China smuggling GPUs. Of course it’s impossible to prove a negative, but it seems a bit disingenuous to omit the fact that Malaysia, on the other side of a river, has a growing data center industry…
There's definitely something fishy going on. Singapore only has about 2% of global data center capacity. It's floor space, power and transit costs are at least twice that of the US and EU making it an unattractive place to do model training. Nonethless, it accounted for 28% of NVIDIAs datacenter GPU sales.
Let’s call the dollars per square foot the “cost density”. The claim you are repeating from the interview I mentioned is that SG data centers have an unusually high cost density.
What could account for that? It might be that there is a very expensive item (a state of the art GPU for example) taking up that space.
Another option, as I mentioned above, is that these GPUs are running inference in Malaysia which is right across the river.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#34Isn't that part of the world usually has warmer climate? Unless the electricity there is somehow extremely cheap, I can't see how they can compete with Iceland, for example.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#35I guess the thesis is that Singapore is the primary business hub in SEA, but Singapore doesn't have a grid that can handle large scale data centers (especially with power hungry GPU demand). Logically Johor bordering Singapore is the next best option for data centers.
On a related note, in the last 1 to 2 years there has already begun a shift in terms of multi-national investment in APAC outside of Singapore. Singapore used to be the obvious location for MNC offices in APAC. Especially since Hong Kong's return to China, Singapore has benefited and see an increase in head offices and employment. However, over the last couple of decades surrounding countries have improved significan…
Cyberjaya (yes, you can cringe at the name) in Malaysia was built with the explicit goal of attracting them, but it's mostly call centers, not R&D. Even Malaysian success stories like Grab (the SE Asian Uber) prefer to operate out of Singapore.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#36Despite being elected on the promise of reform, the government's actual performance has been anything but. The press is still frequently suppressed; social media platforms are required to obtain a yearly license or risk being fined or shut down. There was even a time when the MCMC—the country’s communications regulatory body—forced all ISPs to route traffic through their DNS instead of allowing users to freely use Google or Cloudflare DNS, enabling government censorship.
On that last point, the MCMC backed down after massive public outcry, but the government's authoritarian tendencies remain palpable.
Speaking of authoritarianism, the current Prime Minister, Anwar Ibrahim, has proudly likened himself to Southeast Asia’s version of Erdogan. And indeed, he seems to be increasingly authoritarian just like Erdogan, curbing free speech while advancing an Islamist agenda. Under his leadership, the country is becoming increasingly intolerant, particularly as the majority Malay Muslims frequently target minorities—sometimes on a near-weekly basis. You might be surprised to learn that socks printed with the word "Allah" resulted in the store owner being charged and penalized in court. Meanwhile, ongoing debates about banning convenience stores from selling liquor in Muslim-majority areas never seem to die down. Non-Muslims remain uncertain about when they might inadvertently face repercussions for perceived "mistakes"—whether intentional or not.
Additionally, Anwar's staunch support for Hamas may not sit well with the current U.S. administration. Whether this will lead to investors pulling out, or somehow trigger the US sanction, remains to be seen.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's definitely something fishy going on. Singapore only has about 2% of global data center capacity. It's floor space, power and transit costs are at least twice that of the US and EU making it an unattractive place to do model training. Nonethless, it accounted for 28% of NVIDIAs datacenter GPU sales.
> 2% of global data center capacity Let’s call the dollars per square foot the “cost density”. The claim you are repeating from the interview I mentioned is that SG data centers have an unusually high cost density. What could account for that? It might be that there is a very expensive item (a state of the art GPU for example) taking up that space. Another option, as I mentioned above, is that these GPUs are running…
Why wouldn't DeepSeek (or whoever) just export these to Northern China where power is cheap and the air is cold?
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#38I listened to the SemiAnalysis folks on the Lex Fridman podcast: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1f-o0nqpEI They claimed that the fact that Singapore imports so many GPUs despite a moratorium on data centers was evidence of China smuggling GPUs. Of course it’s impossible to prove a negative, but it seems a bit disingenuous to omit the fact that Malaysia, on the other side of a river, has a growing data center industry…
It is a pretty unfounded claim. Singapore holds the headquarters of a lot of SEA megacorporations, as well as regional HQs of big tech in both USA/China. These chips are bought from these HQs and redistributed to the rest of the world (Singapore is a major shipping hub). India imports chips through their HQs in Singapore, so does Australia, Saudi Arabia, Europe, America, etc. Maybe you could make the case that shady…
This makes me skeptical of your other claims. Do you have evidence that most of the rest of the world for some reason routes their GPU imports through Singapore? That seems quite pointless.
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#39I'm a Chinese Malaysian, and I feel the need to highlight the other side of the coin—the risks multinational corporations (MNCs) face when setting up data centers in Malaysia. Despite being elected on the promise of reform, the government's actual performance has been anything but. The press is still frequently suppressed; social media platforms are required to obtain a yearly license or risk being fined or shut down…
Re: Malaysia is betting on data centers to boost its economy
#40I guess the thesis is that Singapore is the primary business hub in SEA, but Singapore doesn't have a grid that can handle large scale data centers (especially with power hungry GPU demand). Logically Johor bordering Singapore is the next best option for data centers.
There was once a proposal to run an extension cord from Australia to Singapore [1] since Australia could have plentiful and cheap solar power. However, the project collapsed after the capricious billionaire backers ditched it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link
There was a disagreement between the co-founders. One wanted to use HVDC cable to transmit power, the other wanted to use electrolysis to produce Hydrogen, put that on ships, then burn it in Singapore to produce electricity.
To resolve the dispute, they both agreed to put the project into administration, then both made bids to take full control, with HVDC proponent Mike Cannon-Brooks (co-founder of Atlassian btw) eventually winning control.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Green hydrogen plan eventually makes a come back, as solar power from Northern Australia has a compellingly low LCOE.