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When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

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Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#21

Post by verdverm »

dingnuts wrote: post #14
xrisk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reason does Bluesky give for not opening up their AppView code? Another notable component that is closed source is the discovery feed generator, where at least there is some reason.

when I read the spec it seemed like the operator of an AppView & Relay would be most in need of compensation for their hosting costs due to the amount of demand on those components so I believe the spec allows an operator to implement their own AppView & monetize it as that operator sees fit, so that they can afford to operate the service and maybe even make money off of it so that they can make it their full time jo…

It seems this way to me as well. ATProto fundamentally changes how monetization works in social media by removing lockin. It's going to be interesting to see what emerges from this design decision.

Another interesting way to view ATProto is that it could be a collection of headless features and network browsers that leverage those feature providers.

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#23

Post by verdverm »

VectorLock wrote: post #16
verdverm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that it is "better" but that the choice is individual, not up to the mastodon server. In Mastodon, you trade Elon for some other group of individuals, so what happens if they make decision on moderation or content you do not agree with? ATProto is designed around accounts that are independent of data host, application, and moderation, all in the name of giving users individual control over these things. It's…

>It's like if every Mastodon user ran their own server No, it's like every Mastodon user used the same server, and all the coordination is done by one server that nobody can replicate.

Every user in ATProto gets their own database that amounts to a tar file (technically sqlite with car export format)

This is nothing like having a single server for every user. Perhaps you are confusing Bluesky (one app) with ATProtocol the shared network? There are already independent servers and apps operating separate from Bluesky

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#24

Post by autobodie »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #19

It’s really impressive how well Bluesky is performing. It really feels like a throwback to older social media platforms with its simplicity and lack of dark-patterns. I’m concerned that all the great work on the platform, protocol, etc won’t shine in the long term as they eventually need to find a revenue source.

Absolutely. The profit motive is the root of most evil. It is a shame that so many are trained to believe it is the only motive available.

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#25

Post by nightpool »

haileyok wrote: post #17
nightpool wrote: post #2

Note that all of this reflects design decisions on Bluesky's closed-source "AppView" server—any federated servers interacting with Bluesky would need to construct their own timelines, and do not get the benefit of the work described here.

This is not true. Third party PDSes are fully supported by our app view, and our app view generates timelines for all the users on those PDSes.

What does this have to do with third party app views?

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#26

Post by sodality2 »

Larrikin wrote: post #7
amazingamazing wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the infatuation with blue sky. The minute they need money it’ll go the way of the Reddit and twitter.

If everything good is assumed to eventually become bad, why not use things while they are good and then immediately move on when it becomes bad?

Your actions' consequences are not limited to benefiting from the thing like it would for a product - with social media, you improve the networking effect for the soon-to-be bad. (Nothing against bluesky, I don't know or think it will do so)

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#27

Post by fc417fc802 »

verdverm wrote: post #11
VectorLock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to lark on and on about how it has better "default moderation" than Mastodon.

It's not that it is "better" but that the choice is individual, not up to the mastodon server. In Mastodon, you trade Elon for some other group of individuals, so what happens if they make decision on moderation or content you do not agree with? ATProto is designed around accounts that are independent of data host, application, and moderation, all in the name of giving users individual control over these things. It's…

Are you suggesting the "big few" can't largely censor a given account?

I don't see how ATProto is doing noticeably better than the scenario where a large ActivityPub instance blocks your external account.

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#28

Post by dom96 »

xrisk wrote: post #5
amazingamazing wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the infatuation with blue sky. The minute they need money it’ll go the way of the Reddit and twitter.

People want the old Twitter, and Bluesky is close to that. It also cosplays being decentralized to people who don’t look too closely.

What makes it not decentralised?

Re: When imperfect systems are good: Bluesky's lossy timelines

#29

Post by nightpool »

verdverm wrote: post #12
xrisk wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reason does Bluesky give for not opening up their AppView code? Another notable component that is closed source is the discovery feed generator, where at least there is some reason.

The App View frontend is open source: https://github.com/bluesky-social/social-app Much of the backend is open source as well: https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/tree/main/packages What is not are the extra services they run to provide a better and faster UX. Even if it was open source, it likely costs 10s of thousands to run per month (they have moved largely to "onprem" hardware instead of the cloud aiui)

That's the frontend code, it doesn't include the backend API services, which are closed source.
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