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Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#111

Post by jamiedumont »

ehnto wrote: post #3

The pathology for broken collar bones was changing right as I took up mountain biking, and subsequently shattered my collarbone. It was hotly debated at the hospital, if my specific case should be operated on or not. Each time I had a checkup, one doctor would say "wait and see" while the other was saying "I can't believe we didn't operate on this". At any rate, the outcome was as good as if they had operated on it,…

I shattered my collarbone - and I do mean shattered, ~8 pieces - in a mountain bike crash September 2023. I went over the bars after the back wheel of my hardtail caught a berm. Landed on my head and shoulder and compressed it laterally inwards by about 2 inches.

Even with this mess, it was hotly debated for around two weeks whether I needed surgery. A good chunk of my collarbone was trying to push through my skin and the other half was fusing to my scapular and was starting to compromise nerve function. Even then, because the non-surgical route is now considered the standard, I was meeting resistance to have an ORIF. It seems that the about turn from surgical intervention has been so strong that getting ANY surgical intervention is a battle.

I eventually came across a surgeon who took one look at me (never mind the imaging) and scheduled me for surgery. ~18 months later I’m now on a waiting list to have the plate removed, and strangely have gone off cycling… Surfing has happily taken its place.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#112

Post by marssaxman »

edwcross wrote: post #20
ehnto wrote: post #3

The pathology for broken collar bones was changing right as I took up mountain biking, and subsequently shattered my collarbone. It was hotly debated at the hospital, if my specific case should be operated on or not. Each time I had a checkup, one doctor would say "wait and see" while the other was saying "I can't believe we didn't operate on this". At any rate, the outcome was as good as if they had operated on it,…

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

Telling people they're not allowed to have fun in the manner of their choosing because it would be bad for society sounds like a great way to discourage people from caring about society.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#113

Post by bluGill »

taneq wrote: post #22

The human body (like most fit organisms) is antifragile. It needs to be challenged. In this context, people who think "ooh that hurts I'll never do that again" and carefully avoid discomfort find that, by middle age, they can't do anything, and everything hurts. Meanwhile people who think "ooh that hurts, I'd better practise it until it doesn't" are still fully functional into old age because they push their bodies i…

The right level is hard though. I know more than one old person who spent time in a hospital because they thought they could do something they couldn't and broke their bone. "For $20 they would install the new dryer, but no we thought we could do it and that is how my foot got broke in the fall". You should have a cane handy when you need one, but don't use it if you don't need it.

I have no idea how to find the right balance.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#114

Post by TylerE »

grayhatter wrote: post #47
edwcross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

this is such a wild take to me... it's impossible to quantity at what point something becomes a net negative for society. Smoking seems to be an obvious example, because it's addictive quality inhibits a fair decision to the smoker, and it's something with a lifelong pathology. But trampolines and mountain biking are both activities that result in ephemeral injuries. There is the rare case where a particular injury m…

Yes, we should absolutely ban, at the very least, contact football among minors. We have ample evidence of football (and soccer, too, for that matter) student athletes developing full blown CTE by their 20s, and with lifetime risk thousands of times the general population.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#115

Post by bluGill »

77pt77 wrote: post #70
Aeolun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels kinda reasonable. Human bodies cannot possibly have eveolved to require 6 months of rest to fix. All those humans would have died out thousands of years ago.

Most of these fractures would be deadly affairs thousands of years ago anyway. Immobilization has its uses. Surgery is many times essential.

We archeological evidence of broken bones that healed. If you are alone in the woods fractures would be deadly, but humans generally exist in society, and society often (not always!) takes care of them own. Maybe you can't walk, but we will carry you around and hunt food and such until you heal. Clearly their rest of life was worse after the fracture, but it is also clear that many had a long life after the fracture.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#116

Post by lostlogin »

alistairSH wrote: post #28
edwcross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

I don't know that "normal" mountain biking is any worse than cycling in general, or sports like tackle football. A lot of the injury risk when mountain biking is reasonably easily mitigated by controlling your speed and walking the bike through terrain that's above your skill level. There was a report out of British Columbia a few months ago about injury rates, and they were high, but BC is also a major downhill trai…

> Certainly, compared to road cycling, I know more people with major injuries from being hit by cars than from crashing solo on a mountain bike.

Speed must be part of it. Low sun and going into the back of a parked car or other obstacle is a common mistake, and road bikes get up some good speed on most rides. Many riders pass 80kmh on a regular basis, which doesn’t leave a lot of room for error. I’m rather slower than that, but 50-60kmh would be a daily event.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#117

Post by lostlogin »

kqr wrote: post #56
alistairSH wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that "normal" mountain biking is any worse than cycling in general, or sports like tackle football. A lot of the injury risk when mountain biking is reasonably easily mitigated by controlling your speed and walking the bike through terrain that's above your skill level. There was a report out of British Columbia a few months ago about injury rates, and they were high, but BC is also a major downhill trai…

Another factor worth considering is that being physically active also prevents other ailments, so (even downhill) bikers may still be more profitable for insurance companies!

I couldn’t agree more. Road biking has entirely fixed my lower back and neck issues, my knees have come right and getting up hills has knocked 15-20kgs off me in the last year. I just wish I could get out there more.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#118

Post by aerostable_slug »

avn2109 wrote: post #103
grayhatter wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is such a wild take to me... it's impossible to quantity at what point something becomes a net negative for society. Smoking seems to be an obvious example, because it's addictive quality inhibits a fair decision to the smoker, and it's something with a lifelong pathology. But trampolines and mountain biking are both activities that result in ephemeral injuries. There is the rare case where a particular injury m…

Controversial take: On a population level, the negatives of smoking are at least partially mitigated by the "smoking suppresses obesity" side effect. Obesity is such a huge (pun not intended) public health issue in modern American society that any intervention reducing it is actually quite valuable. It's at least arguable and perhaps even true that we as a society would be better off if everybody used tobacco at 1950…

Smoking is significantly worse for you and your family than obesity. It causes a greater reduction in life expectancy, and can impact the physical health of those who live or work with you via secondhand smoke.

It is simply wild how many ways nicotine can find to kill humans. All kinds of stuff stems from the lowly cigarette. Obesity impacts many more people (that is to say, we have more fat people than smokers/tobacco users), but it's far from as significant a health risk. I'm not sure we know enough to quantify vapes and chew vs. obesity.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#119

Post by 77pt77 »

taneq wrote: post #22

The human body (like most fit organisms) is antifragile. It needs to be challenged. In this context, people who think "ooh that hurts I'll never do that again" and carefully avoid discomfort find that, by middle age, they can't do anything, and everything hurts. Meanwhile people who think "ooh that hurts, I'd better practise it until it doesn't" are still fully functional into old age because they push their bodies i…

Yes and no.

Professional athletes are usually miserable later in life due to doing exactly that.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#120

Post by ziml77 »

ehnto wrote: post #3

The pathology for broken collar bones was changing right as I took up mountain biking, and subsequently shattered my collarbone. It was hotly debated at the hospital, if my specific case should be operated on or not. Each time I had a checkup, one doctor would say "wait and see" while the other was saying "I can't believe we didn't operate on this". At any rate, the outcome was as good as if they had operated on it,…

You must have broken yours around the same time my dad broke his. They didn't operate and apparently some of the people who saw the x-rays were quite surprised how well the natural healing process handled pulling the bone pieces back together.
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