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Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#41

Post by bombcar »

edwcross wrote: post #20
ehnto wrote: post #3

The pathology for broken collar bones was changing right as I took up mountain biking, and subsequently shattered my collarbone. It was hotly debated at the hospital, if my specific case should be operated on or not. Each time I had a checkup, one doctor would say "wait and see" while the other was saying "I can't believe we didn't operate on this". At any rate, the outcome was as good as if they had operated on it,…

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

Trampolines are indicated because YOUR home insurance could be on the hook for someone ELSE being hurt on your trampoline. And it's easy for them to exclude it.

Medical insurance generally covers your own accidents/mistakes, because it's not like you're going out searching for them for fun.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#42

Post by tomnipotent »

TomK32 wrote: post #32

Oh this is so bad: > In the 19th century German surgeon and anatomist Julius Wolff recognized that healthy bones adapt and change in response to the load placed on them. That is why everyone—but especially women, who are more susceptible than men to osteoporosis—should lift weights as they age No, weight lifting won't improve bone density, it's running that will edit: https://theros.org.uk/information-and-support/bon…

It's my understanding that weight lifting is superior to running for increasing bone density but that both together are superior to any one singular. Makes me think about a Mark Rippetoe article from several years back he helps an older woman (60? 80s?) eliminate her lower back pain with weight lifting and strength training exercises. Rippetoe isn't pefect, but he has a good-enough track record on this stuff.

I had a lateral fracture of my right humerus (arm snapped in half) and the only thing that made the pain go away was strength training. High-rep endurance exercises didn't help, hundreds of pushups a day didn't help, but after I switched to high-weight lift-to-fail the pain slowly disappeared.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#43

Post by darrenf »

dfxm12 wrote: post #31
paulcole wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think these are things that have to be considered for medical protocols What makes you think those things haven't been considered? The comment you replied to said, "the new guidance is..." I took that to mean those things have been considered.

I mean considered per patient . Pro wrestler Kerry von Erich had to get his broken foot amputated because he thought it felt good enough to walk across the room to get a cheeseburger. Not everyone can gauge these things on their own, especially considering people with broken bones may be taking pain killers. Not everyone can have professionals, or even loved ones, around them to monitor it.

> Pro wrestler Kerry von Erich had to get his broken foot amputated because he thought it felt good enough to walk across the room to get a cheeseburger.

Honestly, I don't think wrestlers -- certainly those from the von Erich era -- are beacons of authority when it comes to sensible recuperation/rehabilitation from injury. Kevin von Erich said it was due to his brother trying to get some food but there are other accounts:

> Moody says Kerry turned up on crutches and was feeling too much pain, so the doctors injected a liquid-type numbing painkiller on his injured foot so he could go on. The match went under 6 minutes with Kerry beating Adias, but according to Moody, even with his foot under a painkiller influence, Kerry still felt a lot of pain, which led to the amputation of his foot.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#44

Post by filoleg »

TomK32 wrote: post #32

Oh this is so bad: > In the 19th century German surgeon and anatomist Julius Wolff recognized that healthy bones adapt and change in response to the load placed on them. That is why everyone—but especially women, who are more susceptible than men to osteoporosis—should lift weights as they age No, weight lifting won't improve bone density, it's running that will edit: https://theros.org.uk/information-and-support/bon…

Source? Because I found plenty of studies on the topic, and there seems to be a fairly universal consensus that goes the exact counter of what you claim. I.e., studies state that weight and resistance training helps with improving bone density significantly, while aerobic exercise (walking/cycling/etc.) doesn’t.

Here are excerpts from one of the papers[0], but you can find many more agreeing with that take:

“Prolonged aerobic training (e.g., swimming, cycling, and walking) is widely beneficial to all body systems, but there are clinical evidences suggesting that none of these activities provide an adequate stimulus to bones”

“Based on the available information, RE [resistance training, e.g., weightlifting/machines/etc], either alone or in combination with other interventions, may be the most optimal strategy to improve the muscle and bone mass in postmenopausal women, middle-aged men, or even the older population.

0. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6279907/

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#45

Post by 77pt77 »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #2

It was ~20 years ago, so my memory is a little foggy, but I gave myself a "dancer's fracture" in one foot. After many months, it was looking like a non-union. The podiatrist was worried any pin would split the broken bone even more. It wasn't looking good. I had read something along these lines even back then, so with my crazy immobilizer boot on, I head to the gym and started doing light squats several times per wee…

What did the doctors say after it healed?

Did they take credit for it?

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#46

Post by Aeolun »

netbioserror wrote: post #4

I fractured my elbow mountain biking, the tip of my radius. The urgent care doctor gave me a sling and suggested months of immobility. The orthopaedic said to throw away the sling and start exercising the elbow as soon as I could, and prescribed PT. Turns out that was the right move, there are some permanent changes to mobility but it's about 97% what it was before the crash. Immobilizing joints can apparently cause…

Feels kinda reasonable. Human bodies cannot possibly have eveolved to require 6 months of rest to fix. All those humans would have died out thousands of years ago.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#47

Post by grayhatter »

edwcross wrote: post #20
ehnto wrote: post #3

The pathology for broken collar bones was changing right as I took up mountain biking, and subsequently shattered my collarbone. It was hotly debated at the hospital, if my specific case should be operated on or not. Each time I had a checkup, one doctor would say "wait and see" while the other was saying "I can't believe we didn't operate on this". At any rate, the outcome was as good as if they had operated on it,…

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

this is such a wild take to me... it's impossible to quantity at what point something becomes a net negative for society. Smoking seems to be an obvious example, because it's addictive quality inhibits a fair decision to the smoker, and it's something with a lifelong pathology.

But trampolines and mountain biking are both activities that result in ephemeral injuries. There is the rare case where a particular injury might become chronic, but how is that a drain on society, and not primarily the individual?

by your logic, should we also ban (or require insurance?) for football (hand egg), boxing, martial arts, (Tai chi?), cars, religion, guns, knives, prescription medicine, children, leaving your house at all?

edit; I'm happy to steal more ideas from sibling comments! I already stole football, but now I want to add obesity, and all mental health conditions.

I'm really curious about the context the idea of net negative comes from, but I probably should also take a stab at a conclusion; why contrast individual actions and decisions in the context of society at all? The decision to do anything should stop at 1st order, and maybe 2nd order effects. That is to say, when trying to improve society, it's fair to look down into smoking and say, we should spend attention on fixing this. But it's incorrect to look at an individual decision "should I smoke" and weight it's effects on society. (How will this effect my family, or my environment is 2nd order, and should be accounted for)

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#48

Post by ghaff »

alistairSH wrote: post #28
edwcross wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of injuries related to mountain biking, is there some specific insurance needed for it? It seems one of those "net-negative for the society activities", like trampolines.

I don't know that "normal" mountain biking is any worse than cycling in general, or sports like tackle football. A lot of the injury risk when mountain biking is reasonably easily mitigated by controlling your speed and walking the bike through terrain that's above your skill level. There was a report out of British Columbia a few months ago about injury rates, and they were high, but BC is also a major downhill trai…

Yeah. I did have a fall (for no good reason) cycling on a carriage path in Acadia National Park. But that's almost certainly safer than road biking on a busy road. And I do think a world in which you have insurance companies micromanaging what they will cover for various outdoor activities is not one we want--and it's not clear that it even distinguishes from people who are very sedentary.

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#49

Post by nsbk »

tomaytotomato wrote: post #13

I had a bad pilon fracture of my ankle a couple of years ago with both a break on Tibia and Fibia. I fell off a ramp whilst pushing a wheelbarrow full of rubble into a skip (should've stuck to building code instead of building a house!). Normally that type of injury is associated with car crashes when someone instinctively puts all their force on the brake and the shock of the crash travels up the pedal into the ankl…

I’m going through a very similar process after breaking my ankle in a motorcycle accident. Tibia and double fibula fracture with dislocation and open wound, an ugly one which needed 2 titanium plates and 18 screws.

I was out of my plaster after week 2 so that I could start moving the ankle, and started physical therapy on week 5. I'm currently on week 7 and have already started _walking_ with the "moon boot".

I can stand on the brokenish ankle with 90% of my weight on it. It's kind of scary to be doing all this to the ankle when the bone is still not fully fixed, but it improves the recovery time and final outcome. I will probably be out of the boot on week 10-12. I'm 10 degrees away from full dorsiflexion range, and apparently it will still take some time and effort to get to the full range, if at all.

Treatment for these kind of injuries have definitely come a long way, this is a massively different experience from breaking my ankle 20 years ago playing football in the US and being on a cast forever, plus dealing with ankle pain for a year after the injury as I didn't get any physical therapy

EDIT: some of the parts for the curious

- https://www.arthrex.com/foot-ankle/titanium-ankle-fracture-s...

- https://www.arthrex.com/products/AR-9943H-03?objectID=human....

Re: Broken legs and ankles heal better if you walk on them within weeks

#50

Post by ghaff »

doix wrote: post #33
4ggr0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing which comes to mind is - why should we stop at sports, then? we'll immediately be at the point where smokers, alcoholics, obese people etc. should pay more, after all, their way of life statistically causes higher costs. (i don't think either of those things should result in higher insurance prices, just continuing the thought.)

> we'll immediately be at the point where smokers, alcoholics, obese people etc. should pay more, after all, their way of life statistically causes higher costs. Wait, do they not? I genuinely assumed they did. I remember when I got private insurance through my work I had to fill in some questionnaire. It was "free", but it was a taxable benefit so you knew how much you were costing the company and me and my friends…

Private life insurance may. I don't think health insurance generally does. Certainly Medicare doesn't ask about any of those things.
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