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Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

blog.andrewmunsell.com

221–230 of 238 posts

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an example of a problem that would be hard for computer to solve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4y79ZbaBs

You just diff each frame and keep the parts that don't change much. Very simple to solve.

Just move letters slightly. And make them morph a bit. Would still be obvious to a human, but a computer trying to average anything would fail miserably.

This is an unsolved computer vision problem.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to see the ability for a machine to solve picture based captcha systems. For example, given a lineup of 10 pictures of pets, choose the three that are cats. I've seen them before, just not widely implemented.

Even just randomly picking 3 images will be successful about 1% of the time which is more than enough for a bot.

Good point. 10 choose 3 = 120.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#223

A forum I run in Ireland doesn't have a need for Captchas. The forum is very regional and niche - no genuine foreign visitors - so we blocked every country apart from Ireland and the UK from posting comments. Result - no spam. This wouldn't work for many forums, but if it's local, you really don't need to open it to the world.

Similarly, if you run the forum on a LAN instead of the Internet, you also don't get any spam! :-/

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is computer vision, an I'm somewhat an expert in the area. I can tell that video sequence recognition is _much_ harder problem than image recognition. For example, if you would show an letter made out of random noise moving through random noise, current computer vision algorithms would not be able to recognize anything. And you would pick out that letter immediately. Human visual subsystem is really amazing in t…

It should be possible to do this with an animated GIF. Do you have any references/examples I could use as a starting point?

Oh. I remember reading some vision paper and in the supplement materials there've been a couple of videos with letters moving. Doubt, I'll be able to find it that easily.

Should be relatively easy to code with any library that can draw a text on a bitmap. Like PIL, matplotlib, etc. Use ffmpeg to make a video out of frames.

1. draw letters (just black/white) masks; 2. fill letters with noise; 4. fill background with noise; 5. copy letters using a mask onto background, using X,Y as loc; 6. add a little bit of new noise to letters; 8. modify X,Y coordinates (move letters SLIGHTLY); 9. go to step 4.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#225

Every time I read something like this I pine for never having the opportunity to turn MotionCAPTCHA[0] into a real (secure) system. Everyone said it couldn't be done, but I know it can! [0] http://www.josscrowcroft.com/demos/motioncaptcha/

MotionCAPTCHA doesn't actually solve the CAPTCHA problem, it just adds a hurdle for human users to your submission form. There is nothing in your "roadmap" that prevents bot spammers from trivially circumventing this hurdle.

The only "protection" it offers is that, as long as MotionCAPTCHA does not become very popular, it won't be worth the effort for a bot spammer to write the circumventing code.

However, you can get exactly the same amount of protection without inconveniencing your users by obfuscating field names and doing the same JavaScript form action replacing trick you already do.

The simple problem is this: The challenge to properly submitting the form is tied to the fact whether your plugin has replaced the form action url to contain the right value. But this is not tied in any way to the user actually having solved the motion captcha. Which means that any bot-stopping power it possesses can also be achieved equally well without forcing the user to pass the motioncaptcha test.

And while the motion captcha looks really neat and fun, it is still always a better user experience if they can submit a form without having to jump through a hoop at all.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#228
So back when I was a PhD student, we had an idea for a Captcha system that would be better than the current system and all alternatives by quite a margin, but we talked to some experts in the area, and they said that none of this matters because captchas are normally broken by feeding them to mturkers or people wanting to get into porn sites.

Is that no longer true? If so, I should look at reviving our old system.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#229
I will say up front that I have no good solution. That said, as a human, I hate captchas or anything else that makes me jump through hoops to do something that should be simple. The industry is punishing people to avoid bots or (whatever they are using them for in the instance), and yet it doesn't even work to accomplish that goal. Eliminate it all. Find something new. I wish I knew what to suggest. But it won't be anything at all like a captcha, stupid game to play, security questions, or anything like that.
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