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Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

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Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#91

Post by shagie »

markus_zhang wrote: post #53
vunderba wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chiming in here, Jetbrains is a subscription model, but with a very important qualifier in the form of a perpetual fallback license once you stop paying. It's an important distinction, and I wish more businesses would follow this model.

Is the Jetbrain model basically the pricing model of early era (pre 2000s) IDEs? I remember back then developers had to pay for editors and compilers, which usually came with a huge amount of manuals. And then they could install patches until a new major version rolled out. I'm actually OK with that model, if they still ship manuals in paper.

Jetbrains originally had a "buy upgrade model". You paid full price for the first one, and then it was half price for upgrades beyond that.

To Jetbrains, this had the problem of feast or famine and the non-predictable income. They'd need to release an upgrade when they needed money and they would hold off on releasing features as a minor release so that they could justify an upgrade later.

At some point (I want to say 2014 based on my licensing), they trial ballooned a subscription only model and got some extreme pushback about it. With that feed/pushback Jetbrains went to the perpetual fallback and subscription. It addresses the subscription issue - they now have a revenue stream rather than the upgrade. It also means that they do a lot of minor releases now with new features throughout the year.

The other part of the perpetual fallback is that if you have a subscription to a version for a year, you will always be able to use that version even if you cancel your subscription. If I canceled my subscription, I'd be able to use IntelliJ 2024.2 forever. I'm currently running 2024.3.3

One other bit on the subscription - it gets less expensive each year. I've got an all products pack for single user. My next yearly billing will be $173.00. https://www.jetbrains.com/store/?section=personal&billing=ye... - the 3rd year and onwards (I've been a Jetbrains used since the end of the world sale - https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2012/12/20/jetbrains-end-of-... )

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What...

Related from 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21798033

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#92

Post by nightcraft »

dinkblam wrote: post #86

Hold Command-Q to quit? Please don't do that! Shortcuts are meant to be pressed and not meant to be held for a second...

Some folks do like hold-to-quit to avoid accidentally quitting (similar to Chrome's default behavior). However, point taken - it'll be configurable in the next update.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#94

Post by uaksom »

alsodumb wrote: post #39

I am a robotics engineer/scientist and I do shit ton of visualization of all kind of high-fidelity/high-rate data, often in a streaming setting - time series at a few thousand Hz, RGB/depth images from multiple cameras, debugging my models by visualizing many layer outputs, every augmentation, etc. For a long time, I had my own observability suite - a messy library of python scripts that I use for visualizing data. I…

Thanks for the shoutout!

We did recently add an export for LLMs[1], but weren't quite confident in how the big models handled it. The biggest issue we kept running into was that it would prefer using older APIs over the latest ones. I tested it just now with ChatGPT, and it seems to be doing a lot better! The export is kept up-to-date with the latest contents of our docs, which update every release. Sometimes a bit more frequently, if we're doing drive-by doc fixes.

For convenience, here's a GPT pre-loaded with the file: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-674702fde5948191a810bdf73370b6eb-rer...

[1]: https://rerun.io/llms.txt

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#95

Post by alsodumb »

bsder wrote: post #90
alsodumb wrote: post #39

I am a robotics engineer/scientist and I do shit ton of visualization of all kind of high-fidelity/high-rate data, often in a streaming setting - time series at a few thousand Hz, RGB/depth images from multiple cameras, debugging my models by visualizing many layer outputs, every augmentation, etc. For a long time, I had my own observability suite - a messy library of python scripts that I use for visualizing data. I…

> So I just scrape their docs into a markdown file and ask my interns to paste the docs in their prompt before they query LLMs and it works like a charm now. Huh. Nice hack. I may have to give that a try for some of the more obscure stuff I deal with. > Recently, it kind of made my life hell as all of my interns refuse to use docs and try using LLMs for rerun code generation and come to me with a messy code spaghetti…

I am not the hiring manager, and unfortunately a lot of interviews and hiring decisions happen at org level or at my manager level. These are mostly sophomores/juniors - folks who went through school in post-COVID, post-LLM era with a lot of virtual classes.

I tried my best to explain it to them, and nudge them to using docs. I did live debugging sessions with them to try and 'teach' them how to use docs. Ultimately, it was taking away too much of my time for little to no return. I only started working in the industry like a month ago and it's my first time having interns that I didn't pick (back in school, I had undergad research assistants that I interviewed/selected, and they were all excellent) - still learning the ropes.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#96

Post by levocardia »

But does it have a variable explorer? Somehow this simple feature, available in MATLAB and RStudio, is sorely lacking in many Python IDEs. I put up with an unbelievable amount of crap in Spyder because I can actually inspect dataframes, matrices, etc.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#97

Post by numb7rs »

ckastner wrote: post #21

In a similar vein: https://www.spyder-ide.org/ (MIT-licensed)

Came looking for this comment. I was a heavy Matlab user, having learned it during University. I started getting frustrated with it though, and wanted something else that would let me go from simulation or experimental data to visualisations as fast as possible. Spyder was the answer.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#98

Post by alsodumb »

rcpt wrote: post #55
alsodumb wrote: post #39

I am a robotics engineer/scientist and I do shit ton of visualization of all kind of high-fidelity/high-rate data, often in a streaming setting - time series at a few thousand Hz, RGB/depth images from multiple cameras, debugging my models by visualizing many layer outputs, every augmentation, etc. For a long time, I had my own observability suite - a messy library of python scripts that I use for visualizing data. I…

For magnet levitation project I am dumping data to a csv on a rpi and then reading it over ssh onto matplotlib on my desktop. It works but it choppy. Probably because of the ssh. Could I drop rerun into this to improve my monitoring? https://youtube.com/shorts/Y1LGSMFisDc

Yes! Rerun can definitely make your life a lot easier!

Rerun natively supports the server and the viewer being on different devices (https://rerun.io/docs/reference/sdk/operating-modes). In your case, in the script you are dumping data into csv, I'd add the relevant lines to log data to rerun.

On the desktop side, you can spawn a viewer that can listen to the stream and visualize it.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#99

Post by alsodumb »

levocardia wrote: post #96

But does it have a variable explorer? Somehow this simple feature, available in MATLAB and RStudio, is sorely lacking in many Python IDEs. I put up with an unbelievable amount of crap in Spyder because I can actually inspect dataframes, matrices, etc.

Vanilla vscode has some version of this in the debugging mode, you'd perhaps need to install their Python extensions but that's about it.

Re: Show HN: Scripton – Python IDE with built-in realtime visualizations

#100

Post by nightcraft »

randomcatuser wrote: post #93

whoa this is so cool!! Can you tell us a bit more about the C++ part? I don't get it

Thanks! The C++ bit comes in for the IPC (inter-process communication) between the IDE and Python.

There are a few different ways for the Python process to communicate (send data over for visualization, receive/transmit commands, etc) with the IDE. For instance, you could communicate over HTTP. Depending on the use case, that can have an appreciable performance overhead. Instead, Scripton uses a lower-level mechanism with a protocol optimized for sending binary payloads (eg: large numpy arrays, images, etc). This communication and processing is implemented in C++ as a native multithreaded node module. It effectively enables very low latency and high throughput visualizations.

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