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iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

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Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#101

Post by jasonlotito »

briandear wrote: post #36

I'm failing to see the big picture here. One author who provides detailed links to a competitor's site gets rejected for a book about self-publishing. It isn't like Apple is rejecting political books with which they disagree or preventing users from reading specific content on their devices. Their store just chose not to sell an item. Supermarkets aren't obligated to stock every possible variety of orange juice, nor…

> This lady's story is an outlier in an otherwise pleasant place

Oh god, no. Not at all. These things happen all the time. This isn't an outlier. It's consistent inconsistency.

> Disagree with the rules if you want, but don't complain when you don't follow those rules and are asked to leave.

You make the assumption that you need to follow the rules to get in, or that following the rules means you'll get in. Neither is true. Indeed, there are no rules.

Seriously, I can't fathom any Apple developer suggesting that the review process is in anyway consistent.

And that's the big problem. The moving goal post. Or in this case, the invisible one. I've experienced this first hand, seen the absurdities. The inconsistent reports. It's X. No, it's Y. No, actually, it's Z. Oh wait, nevermind, you're in!

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#102

Post by drieddust »

myko wrote: post #95
drieddust wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will regulate government and assure it is regulating fairly? It is turtles all the way issue.

It's the citizenry's job to regulate the government.

Same can work for companies too. Customer's should be able to regulate rough companies in ideal world but world is not ideal.

End user's view are actually affected by propaganda only when it starts hurting their bones. At the moment they are in love with Apple devices to notice.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#103

Post by ktizo »

nirvana wrote: post #100
jasonlotito wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly Apple has no problem with those. No. This makes the assumption Apple applies it's rules equally. It does not. Making the assumption that X got approved, so Y should get approved as well is a poor assumption. Your best bet is to try and stick to the rules. And if you get denied, just resubmit and hope the next reviewer approves it.

I've been thru Apple's review process enough times, and been rejected enough times to say that Apple does apply its rules equally.[1] Given the responses I've gotten back from the reviewers, it is clear that I've interacted with multiple reviewers, and I've never seen a deviation. There is the occasional mistake, but the very telling thing about this article is she never tells us the specific rule that she broke. Hid…

How can you claim to have evidence that apple applies it's rules equally based entirely off your own experience of the process? That makes no sense as an argument.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#104

Post by ralfn »

rrbrambley wrote: post #5
antidoh wrote: post #2

Do we really want our information mediated/censored by this sort of corporate behavior?

Absolutely not. This is where the line is drawn. I've grown to accept Apple's App Store policies for the sake of keeping app quality high. However, when it comes to distributing content that people actually use to learn new things and enrich their lives, there is absolutely no room for this type of policy. To anyone who is selling their books via Apple: GTFO right now.

Where in the world do you get the idea, that Apples Walled garden has anything to do with quality?

Its about one thing: extorting content producers, by limiting access to consumers. And they will eventually get into legal trouble. Its textbook anti-competitive, and if they ever get big enough to be a "monopoly" every aspect of their policy would need to change.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#105

Post by ralfn »

inerte wrote: post #31
rrbrambley wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. This is where the line is drawn. I've grown to accept Apple's App Store policies for the sake of keeping app quality high. However, when it comes to distributing content that people actually use to learn new things and enrich their lives, there is absolutely no room for this type of policy. To anyone who is selling their books via Apple: GTFO right now.

This is the place where the line is drawn, but not when. Check https://www.google.com.br/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=4&sou... Apple can, and will, decide what expression will be published. It's not a platform, it's more like a newspaper classified section, with bias.

A single newspaper using patents to make sure their expression and opinions are the only one we get to hea?

Thats not creepy at all.

And this one message travels the world. For our standards, here in Holland, the app store policy representa fundamentalistic christian values. If they keep this up,we might actually see legislation concerning allowing side-loading.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#106

Post by tnicola »

briandear wrote: post #36

I'm failing to see the big picture here. One author who provides detailed links to a competitor's site gets rejected for a book about self-publishing. It isn't like Apple is rejecting political books with which they disagree or preventing users from reading specific content on their devices. Their store just chose not to sell an item. Supermarkets aren't obligated to stock every possible variety of orange juice, nor…

"App Store has remained a high quality experience"

Show me a dev that thinks that App store is a high quality experience and I will show you an Apple fan boy! :-)

"Her real problem is a lack of decent web developer"

She is a WRITER. Her business process should not require a web developer and I hope that Apple does not operate on a basis that people have pocket web devs, just in case they convolute the process whereby you need native expertise to unravel.

(that comment aside, Holly does employ a web dev, and it clearly did not help her)

While pitchforks may not be necessary, the inquisition and the transparency of the process are absolutely necessary.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#107

Post by kevinpet »

myko wrote: post #95
drieddust wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will regulate government and assure it is regulating fairly? It is turtles all the way issue.

It's the citizenry's job to regulate the government.

Why not cut out the middleman?

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#108

Post by click170 »

ktizo wrote: post #103
nirvana wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thru Apple's review process enough times, and been rejected enough times to say that Apple does apply its rules equally.[1] Given the responses I've gotten back from the reviewers, it is clear that I've interacted with multiple reviewers, and I've never seen a deviation. There is the occasional mistake, but the very telling thing about this article is she never tells us the specific rule that she broke. Hid…

How can you claim to have evidence that apple applies it's rules equally based entirely off your own experience of the process? That makes no sense as an argument.

I think you misunderstood what was meant by 'Apple applies it's rules equally'. I read it to mean it was on a per submission basis not on a per submitter basis. Not that I readily agree given the anecdote just presented.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#109

Post by ktizo »

click170 wrote: post #108
ktizo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you claim to have evidence that apple applies it's rules equally based entirely off your own experience of the process? That makes no sense as an argument.

I think you misunderstood what was meant by 'Apple applies it's rules equally'. I read it to mean it was on a per submission basis not on a per submitter basis. Not that I readily agree given the anecdote just presented.

I read it that the claim was that apple applies it's rules equally, which in plain reading wouldn't differentiate between a per submission and per submitter interpretation as it would be applying the rules equally regardless.

I was just meaning that if you were to go and try and find out whether apple were applying their rules reasonably equally, then you would need a lot more data than just the submissions of one individual, purely by the definition of what you are trying to research.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#110

Post by brianwhitman »

rickmb wrote: post #73

Something is off about this story. A brief glance in the iBookstore shows tons of books on Amazon and Amazon products, including books on how to sell your work via Amazon. We're talking entire books who's sole purpose is to promote or support the use of Amazon. Clearly Apple has no problem with those.

She has updated her comments with a link to the actual email from Apple:

http://hollylisle.com/apple-made-its-decision-my-turn/commen...

My reading of this is a complete miscommunication. Nowhere in Apple's email does it state they had a problem with content. I really have no idea how she jumped to that conclusion. The very simple and likely explanations are either (1) she did not remove all links or (2) the reviewer did not closely check to see if she removed all links.

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