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You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

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Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#251

As an embedded engineer in a new position I always volunteer to take up an old crusty legacy product that nobody else wants to touch. It's a quick education into how the company approaches projects and all the ghosts they had to fight along the way. All the business logic is there, and sometimes it's even documented. And once you have a semblance of knowledge about how the thing works and how to make fixes, you've bu…

Cannot recommend this enough, this mindset will set you up for success.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#252
post #237

As an embedded engineer in a new position I always volunteer to take up an old crusty legacy product that nobody else wants to touch. It's a quick education into how the company approaches projects and all the ghosts they had to fight along the way. All the business logic is there, and sometimes it's even documented. And once you have a semblance of knowledge about how the thing works and how to make fixes, you've bu…

This can go wrong, as I found. Management and Tech leadership are focussed on the new projects with latest technology - they pay the biggest bucks for these and no one really cares about the devs maintaining the old stuff - even if important. The second problem is looking for new roles you resume is filled with old tech rather than new stuff that is in demand.

I’ve found it to be the opposite but it’s not really either/or.

Over here in the UK, if I constantly chase the new hotness I will have plenty of new startups to choose from but I’ll almost always be low-balled on pay with some practically meaningless equity package.

Gaining more in-depth experience opens up the better paying positions further up the ladder in more established companies.

Don’t want to keep your head in the sand for years but at the same time, there are a lot of skills that can’t be learned if you stay exclusively at the bleeding edge.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#253
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small, but not insurmountable. The time always comes when a new leader and their lieutenants come into the org and prioritize new features over maintenance, at which point your moat is null and void and you’re on borrowed time. I’ve yet to find a way to build a moat that withstands that level of hostility without actively harming the organization in the process. I’d love to hear how others deal with this inevitabilit…

> The time always comes when a new leader and their lieutenants come into the org and prioritize new features over maintenance, at which point your moat is null and void and you’re on borrowed time. The "on borrowed time" is an odd conclusion. When someone takes over, it's typically a priority change ("We want everyone working on new projects, just freeze this old stuff") rather than some kind revenge path against an…

It does happen that the new leader ends up saying out loud "everything we have is terrible," which is easily taken as "everyone who worked on it is terrible." And to be fair, sometimes that's true. And sometimes it's not true but the leader wants to bring over their crew of loyalists and needs to make room somehow.

Long-term ownership and careerist jockeying don't go well together.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the approach recommended in Team Topologies. The same team should own vN and vN+1, so that they both have to operate their own design and have the opportunity not to make the same mistakes again. It should be the default.

That would require staying in one company for more than 2 years, which means you probably lost out on 20-30% of income over next 2 years.

It’s okay to enjoy work and focus on your craft for two years rather than jump for more money. If you like your employer and colleagues and are growing as an engineer isn’t that better in the long term? I think jumping around can risk creating an engineer who leaves a place worse than when they started.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tell me you don't have ADHD without telling me you don't have ADHD

For what it's worth, I find it much easier for my ADHD to debug and improve existing code than to greenfield - it's actually interesting . Debugging is like a detective's work with small dopamine hit at each step of unraveling the situation and a huge reward once you finally grasp it. It's best to do on someone else's code, so you don't get too frustrated with your past self ;) Greenfielding provides some rewards too…

On the other hand, the infrastructure variant of this is the exact opposite. Trying to figure out if something specific is in use and who uses it or if someone just clicked around in your cloud console and forgot about it is the worst. There's only so many ways I can be inventive in building proxies to measure usage.

We sometimes get incidents that things someone remembers should exist do not work, only to find out that that product was retired several years ago (but someone forgot to delete some DNS records, so there's an error message from... someone's server!). But only because we asked half the company on Teams.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#258

As an embedded engineer in a new position I always volunteer to take up an old crusty legacy product that nobody else wants to touch. It's a quick education into how the company approaches projects and all the ghosts they had to fight along the way. All the business logic is there, and sometimes it's even documented. And once you have a semblance of knowledge about how the thing works and how to make fixes, you've bu…

Additionally, reading through other people's code is educational and it also builds self-esteem.

Conversely, reading through my own code from ancient history (>3 months ago) is both humbling and terrifying :D

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#259
We were lucky enough to experience explosive growth of tech industry in the past 20 years. A perk of this golden age is that one did not have to work on legacy code at all, if so we chose. Better, we got to build 0-to-1 systems[1] that could make a difference, like the first search engine, the first key-value store, the first machine learning pipeline, the first resource orchestrator, the first data pipeline, the first real-time OLAP system, the first distributed logging system, the first bespoke compiler, and the list went on.

Unfortunately, we had this level of luxury because we had growth, especially new business scenarios that involved thousands of companies and millions and millions of users, thanks to the confluence of internet, mobile, social network, cloud, and machine learning applications. I'm not sure we are going to have similar growth in the coming 10 years, but I hope I'm dead wrong.

[1] The downside, of course, is that engineers tended to abandon a project after version 0.1, like what Twitter engineers did to their Manhattan project.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#260
post #79

I've run into a few engineers, very capable people and I'd be happy to work with them, but their experience was limited to very structured environments. It sounded like they were in well organized organizations. One in particular worked for a sort of "side ways competitor". They were horrified to hear about my deploying a fix all by myself, no review, for a legacy product that really didn't have a good testing enviro…

> deploying a fix all by myself, no review, for a legacy product that really didn't have a good testing environment.

This sounds like a great way to cause a live-site incident.

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