My first "software engineering" scale project was working on a existing massive 10 y.o js pub/sub and java templated webapp. Taught me why typed languages are valuable, why I should never listen to PMs, why I should be humble, why estimates are impossible but sort of important, and why long feedback loops anywhere in the entire process (including compilation) are productivity killers, along with not having an isolated private work area.
You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
201–210 of 431 posts
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, but if there's anything I've learned from working on legacy software, it's that I don't know why the code was written the way it was. I'm not the only smart person to work on a codebase, and it's more common that another smart person did what they did for a reason, than that I'm a genius who knows better than they did.
Sometimes there were reasons, but they were not necessarily good ones. Like these: - time pressure, leading to just making it work and not caring about edge cases, which were bolted on later. Or maybe never at all. And naturally, there is no useful testsuite. - the prototype ended up in production - a refactoring happened, but there was no follow-up into other areas of the code base - features changed, but the code i…
And not to forget: business realities change over time, but it is not always the code follow.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company?
As a senior engineer your job is to take on the unglamorous hard problems, both technical and organisational, that are holding the team back. Doing this, and being seen to do it, early-on in your time with an employer will be somewhere between appreciated and expected.
If you do this you should also be good at story telling. Not working on the new things, but making sure the core business running, is often times looked down upon in my experience. Most leaders will see the greenfield project move fast and wonder why the established and "complete" software moves slower.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Juniors with tons of experience aren't very uncommon.
I cannot grok this. Are you saying that “juniors with tons of experience are very common?” Do you mean that there are seniors with a lack of experience? I believe yes I was also making that same point. Ageism in the industry also encourages seniors to appear to be plugged in with the newest shiniest thing, so we kind of do it to ourselves with our hiring practices. We need to divorce seniority from talent.
As the adage goes: Some senior developers have 20 years of experience, and some have one year repeated 20 times.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#205what about if ALL you did was work on legacy project? :)
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Better on every axis: security, performance, resource consumption, reliability, verification, documentation... Code is a pure liability that you accept to get a useful service.
> Better on every axis... How 'bout job security?
Anyone can write no code.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company?
I pulled this strategy at a new company and found that it opened up a million opportunities I could take my pick of. I basically got to shape my own role going forward. Why? Because I very quickly made a name for myself as someone who learns quickly and then gets stuff done even in contexts where everyone else struggles. Solving problems that have long been considered intractable is a good way to show your value.
This is 100% true. Those problems you are solving probably don’t look all that important, but, in reality, they have been blocking sales, renewals, account expansions, or even access to markets for a long time. The business side of the house has probably given up or occasionally tries to wag the dog to get it fixed.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#208You're also not a senior engineer until you've been forced to adopt the coding style and practices of that legacy project. A lot of younger developers like to come into a new project and slap on the latest frameworks or coding practices that they've picked up recently, without acknowledging that breaking the standards of the project lead to higher mental load to maintain that code over the long term.
Not to gatekeep, but I question whether this is even a legacy project, or just "not greenfield."
Legacy projects are usually have shoestring budgets for any changes. After all, they are legacy for a reason: likely nobody has touched the system in a while. I can't think of a single legacy client I have that would be okay with a company wasting their hours on adding a new framework. It can be hard enough to convince them to let us add tests or upgrade from PHP 5.6
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Boredom is lacking stimulation. Even the most cutting edge task can grow boring if you need to plumb with it dozens of times over a year. Just because you can find what's unique doesn't mean it stimulates you. That's the exact issue with why neuro divergent individuals are demonize: they don't take as much interest with people as "normal people" would. >One needs to be able to create their own interesting solutions r…
> You should tell that to every old manager I had. They sound like boreful people. If you find you have become boreful, there's a good chance you may be experiencing burnout or depression, which are nasty diseases, but still ones that afflict the subject, not the object. Nothing is boring but for the person who perceives it that way.
you should be a production line manager.
Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company?
Engineering isn't about working on the most interesting problems. It's about getting stuff done and management happy. Here, parent explained in detail how to get stuff done, management very happy and secure their position for years to come.
Engineers have a special place in society like doctors and lawyers. Working with management is part of the job, but engineers have a professional ethical obligation to say no if they are asked to something against the public good.
The split there isn’t in favor of doing stuff that’s fun and novel though; actually, the engineer should usually pick a boring proven solution if the public has a high stake in the outcome.