Earlier quoted context omitted.
is nouveau written in Rust?
No. However its replacement (Nova) is.
It doesn't support old GPUs so not a replacement for many.
Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
961–970 of 1001 posts
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#962Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Headwinds from Apple, who are indifferent to the project, stingy with documentation, and not inclined to reduce their own rate of change. That is part of the challenge he chose to take on. > Headwinds from users, because of the stripped down experience. Users can be ignored. How much you get users to you is your own choice. > Headwinds from the kernel team, who are in the unenviable situation of having to accept an…
> The maintainers in question did not ask for people to add Rust to the kernel. They have no obligation to be welcoming to it. Their boss, however, did ask for it, so yes, they do have an obligation to be welcoming to it.
Wasn't it more like "Their boss was asked for it to be included and grudginlgly, provisionally, accepted"?
With all the drama, I wouldn't be the least surprised if he soon withdraws that provisional acceptance.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#963Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The maintainers in question did not ask for people to add Rust to the kernel. They have no obligation to be welcoming to it. Their boss, however, did ask for it, so yes, they do have an obligation to be welcoming to it.
Wasn't it more like "Their boss was asked for it to be included and grudginlgly, provisionally, accepted"? With all the drama, I wouldn't be the least surprised if he soon withdraws that provisional acceptance.
I don’t think that’s an accurate way to describe what happened, no. He seems to be enthusiastic about it and to genuinely want it to succeed.
> "A lot of people actually think we're somewhat too risk averse," said Torvalds. "So when it comes to Rust, it's been discussed for multiple years by now. It's getting to the point where real soon now, we will actually have it merged in the kernel. Maybe next release."…
> "Before the Rust people get all excited," the Linux kernel creator and chief said. "Right? You know who you are. To me, it's a trial run, right? We want to have [Rust's] memory safety. So there are real technical reasons why Rust is a good idea in the kernel…”
> “And hopefully, it works out, and people have been working on it a lot, so I really hope it works out…”
https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/23/linus_torvalds_rust_l...
Last September he was still insisting he thinks the project will not fail, and he was not exactly subtle in his criticism of maintainers who refuse to engage with it in good faith.
> "Clearly, there are people who just don't like the notion of Rust, and having Rust encroach on their area.
> "People have even been talking about the Rust integration being a failure … We've been doing this for a couple of years now so it's way too early to even say that, but I also think that even if it were to become a failure – and I don't think it will – that's how you learn," he said.
> "So I see the whole Rust thing as positive, even if the arguments are not necessarily always [so]."…
> With impressive diplomacy, considering his outbursts of years past, Torvalds went on, "There's a lot of people who are used to the C model, and they don't necessarily like the differences... and that's ok.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/19/torvalds_talks_rust_i...
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#964Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a very strange take. The phrase isn't American and has no negative connotation. It has nothing to do with "extrajudicial punishment". It simply refers to the (obvious) fact that what separates societies from anarchy is the "thin blue line" of law enforcement. Rowan Atkinson had a sitcom set in a London police station in the 90s called "The Thin Blue Line". Are you under the impression he was dogwhistling abou…
This is what really confused me about the article. I read the mailing list post and had no idea what was controversial about thin blue line. In fact, I thought most of that post was fairly reasonable. I'd never heard of the extrajudicial punishment aspect of the phrase (though I had heard the phrase itself) and it didn't show up when I googled, but I'm not American, so maybe there's some cultural differences.
"Thin blue line" is a popular phrase of the so called "American culture war". During the heyday of the Black Lives Matter movement, it was used as a self-identification by those who did not agree with criticisms of the nations policing and justice systems. A closely related symbol is the Punisher[0] skull from Marvel comics.
[0]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull
All in all, this could just be another instance of the "culture war" inflaming every other minor disagreement with Ted playfully using the phrase and Marcan misinterpreting it. Or it could be Ted slipping up with their politics. From what I know about Marcan and what can be inferred from his post, they do seem like someone the alt-right would persecute.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#965Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what really confused me about the article. I read the mailing list post and had no idea what was controversial about thin blue line. In fact, I thought most of that post was fairly reasonable. I'd never heard of the extrajudicial punishment aspect of the phrase (though I had heard the phrase itself) and it didn't show up when I googled, but I'm not American, so maybe there's some cultural differences.
"Thin blue line" is a popular phrase of the so called "American culture war". During the heyday of the Black Lives Matter movement, it was used as a self-identification by those who did not agree with criticisms of the nations policing and justice systems. A closely related symbol is the Punisher[0] skull from Marvel comics. [0]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull All in all, this could just be another ins…
Wow, hadn't heard of the punisher skull association either! It seems that it hasn't really traveled that much outside of America.
I had a look, and it seems that Ted Ts'o is American, so I guess we should assume he understands the cultural significance of the phrase (even though I didn't).
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#966Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wasn't it more like "Their boss was asked for it to be included and grudginlgly, provisionally, accepted"? With all the drama, I wouldn't be the least surprised if he soon withdraws that provisional acceptance.
I don’t think that’s an accurate way to describe what happened, no. He seems to be enthusiastic about it and to genuinely want it to succeed. > "A lot of people actually think we're somewhat too risk averse," said Torvalds. "So when it comes to Rust, it's been discussed for multiple years by now. It's getting to the point where real soon now, we will actually have it merged in the kernel. Maybe next release."… > "Bef…
Thanks!
But yeah, I still don't think it's all that inaccurate: He may not have wanted it to fail, and still not think it's a technical failure... But socially? Still seems possible he'd be starting to think that while the Rust language per se is a technical success, all the drama surrounding the integration of it into Linux means that that is turning out to be a social failure.
(Or maybe I'm just projecting because that is what it looks like to me.)
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#967Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was plenty of indefensible behavior in the Actix debacle, but the reason it blew up was because the maintainer was genuinely wrong and was being a jerk on top of it. The sequence of events was: 1) Issue found by Shnatsel 2) Issue closed as harmless to users by fafhrd91 3) Issue proven harmful to users by Nemo157 and reopened by JohnTitor 4) Issue fixed and closed by fafhrd91 5) Issue proven unfixed and proposed…
I'm not sure what you're arguing. Are you saying that because the Actix maintainer was "a bad maintainer" that the community shouldn't be held accountable for harassing him?
This is explicitly not what they were saying. They explicitly wrote in their comment that you are replying to that this is not what they were saying.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#968Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's an interesting phenomenon where people keep coming out of the woodwork and criticize the most successful software development project in history for doing it wrong. They're not micro kernel! They're not TDD! They're not C++! They're not CVS! Not SVN! Not SCRUM! Not Gitlab! Yet the project marches on, with a nebulous vision of doing a really useful kernel for everyone. Had they latched on any of the armchain expe…
> Yet the project marches on, with a nebulous vision of doing a really useful kernel for everyone. The question is - how long will it march on? The lack of new developers for Linux has been a consistent topic for years now. Linus himself isn't getting younger, and the same goes for Greg KH, Ted Ts'o and other influential leads. When the status quo scares off too many potential newcomers, eventually the project will e…
> Linus himself isn't getting younger
Why would he need to, he's already a young whippersnapper.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#969Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always invited them to talk to my manager if they wished. "If you can get my manager to tell me to do the thing, I'll happily do it." I got along great with the sales guys. They could understand that kind of thing.
That is because they know they have the most influence and can get to #1 most of the time :)
> they have the most influence and can get to #1 most of the time
Not when all the other P1 tickets are from other sales guys.
But at least now they're all fighting with each other, via your manager, so they're out of your hair.
Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
#970Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think entitlement like that is stupid and bad for open source (and everything). However, in the next paragraph the author gets into criticising the opposite position, that asahi linux was not ready for everyday use. The entitled requests came from users that thought of asahi linux as exactly covering an everyday use case, a linux distro they should be able to use to carry on their tasks. This I find contradictory.…
Thing is it will never get to be a daily driver if people don't use it and shake out the bugs. 25 years ago (huh, long time), when Windows ME pissed me off for good, linux wasn't exactly known for being a daily driver but I gave it a try and, unsurprisingly, it did become reliable over the years. Other than Gnome's propensity to make stupid changes to default settings I can't remember the last time I had to even thin…
> unsurprisingly
In hindsight.
> [Linux] did become reliable over the years.
Might have gone the other way. And if it had, nobody would be surprised at that either, now.