The Disappointing Surprise From Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#121

Post by vacri » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 2:08 AM UTC

5teev wrote: post #96

msabalau wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I buy a new computer, I hopefully understand what features it has and lacks. It is another thing altogether for a operating system upgrade to purposefully destroy user data.

As the article indicates, the data wasn't destroyed, just obscured. Maybe equivalent for some users, but somewhat overstating things, especially here.

Even with expert advice, she had to manually recreate the data, going from snippets she could see. Surely that counts as 'destroyed' or at least 'damaged'.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#122

Post by lparry » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 2:36 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #66

"All this to say, that I still run out and buy the new OS as soon as possible. The affordability and ease of doing so make it ridiculous not to. But this time I’m disappointed for one very specific reason." "run out and buy the new os" If you are a user to the extent that your usage depends on having access to all or certain features [1] is probably isn't the wisest thing to upgrade immediately or even upgrade on the…

Please don't use the word CPU when you mean computer. The audience on hackernews knows what a CPU actually is, and will do a double take trying to work out what multiple CPUs has to do with running multiple different OS. I know I did

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#123

Post by mikescar » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 3:24 AM UTC

I used Ubuntu for laptops for about 6 years. I moved to Mac because Linux laptops were no longer allowed for the new company.

I don't really understand the shock from early adopters that core things have changed. In Ubuntu, I wouldn't compete to update right away. Just wait a week or two. Why would you do it for Mountain Lion?

Apple isn't really any better than Ubuntu with saying what will 'break' and what won't. It's either a positive change or a UI breakage, depending on the person.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#124

Post by jopt » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 6:06 AM UTC

Lets not get of topic: A new version of the software refuses to read the old version's data.

It's unworthy of a modern day app, especially a non-third-party app.

It's especially unfortunate that this upgrade is bundled with a larger OS upgrade. Likewise that a proprietary format was used for the data.

This falls short of the integrated experience and "just works" attitude that Apple prizes itself on.

Backward compatibility has never been a strength of Apple's. Floppy, Classic, PowerPC, and recently optical discs have fallen to the wayside.

The data is not deleted. That's significant especially in principle.

This has little to do with other policies of Apple, such as their "control the user experience" attitude. Nothing about their policy prohibits handling this better.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#125

Post by jopt » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 6:07 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #110

paupino_masano wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't destroy the data [1] but regardless a migration path should have been provided. It wouldn't have been to much effort to check to see if they used the RSS feature and then basically tell them "this feature is not supported, but we see you use it - how about we make an export so you can use one of the other great readers out there". The upgrade from Snow Leopard to Lion did something similar when it decided…

They didn't destroy the data No, they just left it hidden and in an unreadable format.

The version that created the data reads it just fine. The new version just isn't backwards compatible.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#126

Post by javajosh » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 6:52 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #101

javajosh wrote: post #25

In a word Amber, yes, of course you are right to feel violated. Apple removed your data without your consent. The fact that you were able to recover it is impressive, and far beyond the ordinary user. The fact that you are in the minority because you used a tool and technology (RSS) that is passe if not unpopular, should be no excuse to ignore this kind of treatment. That feed collection was your data, and Apple had…

RSS is passe? That's news for me. I've been using RSS almost exclusively to get my news/blog/entertainment feeds for years now, and I know many others do the same. So what's the cool thing now to use instead?

Actually, when Google Reader removed social features, I stopped using it, and actually I don't miss it much. It turns out that HN and Reddit do a better job of curating the same sort of feeds I was reading anyway - and selecting the best posts from a much wider variety of sources, to boot. The simple fact is that its a rare site that consistently publishes things I want to read. Anecdotally, it turns out that forming a community with others with similar interests provides a far better experience consuming information. (I say this because the "hit ratio" on the HN home page is much much higher than my feed ever was. And I'm not sure if it was ever possible for me to achieve that high of a hit ratio on my own just through subscribing to feeds).

That said, I think that everyone probably has 2 or 3 primary content sites (as opposed to aggregator sites like HN or Reddit or Google News) that they should probably read all the time, because it aligns so closely to their core interests, and RSS in a mail reader isn't a bad solution for such a small number of sources.

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#127

Post by jarek » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 6:54 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #107

jarek wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this was downvoted. This is a very accurate representation of Apple philosophy in a nutshell.

Maybe not everybody likes this philosophy...

And downvoting someone on HN is going to make Apple abandon this philosophy?

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#128

Post by ars » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 6:56 AM UTC

jopt wrote: post #125

bad_user wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't destroy the data No, they just left it hidden and in an unreadable format.

The version that created the data reads it just fine. The new version just isn't backwards compatible.

The correct thing to do is give a warning before the upgrade:

"This new version can not read your old data. Please export it before continuing."

Does Apple provide release notes for the OS? Did they at least document this in the upgrade/release notes?

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#129

Post by jarek » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 7:22 AM UTC

hythloday wrote: post #109

jarek wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this was downvoted. This is a very accurate representation of Apple philosophy in a nutshell.

No, I'm pretty sure "move fast and break things" is Facebook.

And Apple is a shining example of backwards compatibility and concern for the 20%.

Prioritizing tasks, focusing their efforts, and consciously deciding not to support some users or pursue some customers is why many people on HN hold Apple in high esteem, and now someone's downvoted for explaining this?

Re: The Disappointing Surprise From Apple

#130

Post by tbergeron » Sun, Jul 29, 2012, 7:32 AM UTC

Apple always removed what they found weak and this is a part of why OS X is a strong and well integrated operating system.

I can't see what all the fuss is about. I remember Apple removing many features in ten years of usage and it always been for the best.

If you can't stand this anymore, to to the app store where's there's way better options such as Reeder and NetNewsWire.