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Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

blog.andrewmunsell.com

31–40 of 238 posts

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#31
It's funny that we are advancing the science of OCR and computer vision by funneling grey/blackmarket dollars into the field to break captchas.

Makes me wonder what sort of social engineering opportunity this creates. What other fields could be advanced in a similar way.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#32

It's easy to criticize captchas. That's why there are so many articles like this, which we all knowingly nod along to as we read. It's much harder to provide productive criticism that leads to an actual improvement over the status quo. (Although it is easy to suggest bad alternatives to captchas, which is why they appear in every comment thread about captchas on Hacker News, including this one.)

I don't disagree, but what is your point? That one should never say "X is broken" without inventing a Y that is better than X?

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#33
post #17

I had just noticed that captchas were getting worse. I always thought sites should just make the user perform an operation. Display a hard to read but still legible "type the second letter of the third word". 'e' would be the correct response. There's got to be a reason this isn't done already, does someone know why?

Bots would spam your site once every 26 tries.

I was going to say don't most modern sites limit multiple attempts in succession? Then I realized that spammers have thousands of computers at their disposal so the successive attempts would not come from the same IP. Shoot this is a hard problem...

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#34
CAPTCHA seems relatively pointless at stopping spammers since there are dozens of online services that use human labour to solve them for a dollar per thousand.

In tests on my own sites I've found that introducing reCAPTCHA during the registration process leads to a significant increase in people abandoning their registration when they fail at recognising the text the first time, without putting a significant dent in spammer registration at all. I've found it far more effective to do things like randomising form field names (instead of using names like 'username' and 'password') so the spammer has to scrape the site to figure out which fields he needs to submit for each and every account he registers, silently dumping registrations that don't use the correct field names, and then applying various heuristics to successful registrations to detect patterns common to spammers.

For instance, one particular spammer always seemed to use the same user agent string and didn't ever trigger any of the AJAX calls on the page. It was trivial to detect registrations coming from that one spammer and silently dump new accounts when he created them.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#35

I've got several times math symbols written in captchas instead of words.. how I'm supposed to write them?

Anything you write for them is accepted. In fact of these captchas you only need to get one word correct (the non-maths one). IIRC the other is scanned from a book somewhere and the computer used to scan it couldn't figure out what word it was.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#36

There was an interesting talk that mentioned CAPTCHA by one of its creators, Luis von Ahn, at the AAAI-12 conference on AI and robotics this past week. In ReCAPTCHA, the two-word CAPTCHA version, one of the two words is taken from a scanned book. That (unknown) word was one that failed OCR for that book. The other word is one that captcha already knows the answer to. The assumption is if you get the known captcha cor…

Yeah. The actual problem as I see it is that people have been trained that you have to get captcha's "right", where with these recaptchas all you really need is a reasonable guess because there is no 'right' (and nowhere does it say that).

The assumption behind recaptcha was a novel one, but it seems pretty obvious that the OCR is really just about as good as humans anyway - the 'difficult words' that usually get served are most commonly either non-existant words (printing/writing errors) or scanning/cropping errors.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#37
post #32

It's easy to criticize captchas. That's why there are so many articles like this, which we all knowingly nod along to as we read. It's much harder to provide productive criticism that leads to an actual improvement over the status quo. (Although it is easy to suggest bad alternatives to captchas, which is why they appear in every comment thread about captchas on Hacker News, including this one.)

I don't disagree, but what is your point? That one should never say "X is broken" without inventing a Y that is better than X?

It's fine to say "X is broken", but I doubt you can find anyone on Hacker News who didn't read an article like this years ago and thus already knows X is broken. This article is beating a dead horse. The fact remains, captchas are the worst technique to prevent bots from filling out a form, except for all the other ones.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#38
post #34

CAPTCHA seems relatively pointless at stopping spammers since there are dozens of online services that use human labour to solve them for a dollar per thousand. In tests on my own sites I've found that introducing reCAPTCHA during the registration process leads to a significant increase in people abandoning their registration when they fail at recognising the text the first time, without putting a significant dent in…

Randomizing the field names is a great idea but as you said they would just need to scrape the HTML each time they wanted to register. Have you considered sprinkling in random bits of markup to throw off the people using regex and other lazy parsing methods? That might make it a real pain to scrape your forms depending on how the spammer parses your page.

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#39

It's easy to criticize captchas. That's why there are so many articles like this, which we all knowingly nod along to as we read. It's much harder to provide productive criticism that leads to an actual improvement over the status quo. (Although it is easy to suggest bad alternatives to captchas, which is why they appear in every comment thread about captchas on Hacker News, including this one.)

The best anyone else has come up with is, "You've typed your password wrong one time. Your account is now disabled, please call a customer service representative at 1-900-TIME-WASTE between the hours of 10:30 AM and 3:30 PM Indian Standard Time. Please note that we are closed on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday, and that we have lunch between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM."

Re: Captchas Are Becoming Ridiculous

#40
post #32

It's easy to criticize captchas. That's why there are so many articles like this, which we all knowingly nod along to as we read. It's much harder to provide productive criticism that leads to an actual improvement over the status quo. (Although it is easy to suggest bad alternatives to captchas, which is why they appear in every comment thread about captchas on Hacker News, including this one.)

I don't disagree, but what is your point? That one should never say "X is broken" without inventing a Y that is better than X?

Right now I think the best solution is no captcha. HN doesnt use one for the sign up form. Yes, the HN community is flooded, but for the most part I dont think a captcha would change that.
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