I remember reading this article when it was published, it seems like everything said continues to be true about Elm, so much that I don't hear about anyone using Elm these days, as even those who have used it as legacy code have now largely had enough time to migrate away.
One of the core team members mentioned in the article showed up on HN a couple weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42935516
Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
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Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#12tl;dr: the Elm compiler has a hardcoded whitelist of projects allowed to use certain critical language features, and anyone who releases a fork of the compiler without that antifeature gets banned from the project's community.
Weird. Why can’t you patch your local version to include the name of your project?
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#13I remember reading this article when it was published, it seems like everything said continues to be true about Elm, so much that I don't hear about anyone using Elm these days, as even those who have used it as legacy code have now largely had enough time to migrate away.
There's definitely a "the bear is sticky with honey" confusion of discussion over whether it's dead or not. It would be nice for interested strangers like me if they could make some sort of clear statement on it.
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#14It's been a while since I watched them, and I recommend his talks, but at least one or two of his talks are centered around what is basically unfair expectations. In one talk, [bad paraphrasing, but] he compares how people's expectations of him and Elm aren't much different than the expectations they have of languages with millions of dollars of corporate support behind them, and people don't temper their their expectations accordingly when dealing with him.
You just know it's a shit show starting a language and then having an increasing amount of your time pilfered by people who think because they are a big fish in your small pond (ecosystem), they deserve a level of command they would never expect from, say, React or Javascript or SwiftUI or Swift.
I still use Elm for personal projects. It's the one stack I've used where I can revisit a project I haven't touched in ten years and instantly push out a new feature. Just by writing the code I want to exist and then backtracking through type errors until it's implemented (that really never gets old). It makes a lot of sense for personal projects for that reason which tend to accumulate infinitely.
I always kinda wonder how evancz would describe his experience off the record, friend-to-friend.
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the core team members mentioned in the article showed up on HN a couple weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42935516
Assuming that you're talking about Richard Feldman, he shows up regularly but not to talk about Elm—Roc is his new project, which is inspired by Elm but not trying to target the same niche.
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#16I think this post captures the wave of entitlement among a group of Elm participants of that era that led to what looks like catastrophic burnout in evancz, Elm's creator. It's been a while since I watched them, and I recommend his talks, but at least one or two of his talks are centered around what is basically unfair expectations. In one talk, [bad paraphrasing, but] he compares how people's expectations of him and…
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#17tl;dr: the Elm compiler has a hardcoded whitelist of projects allowed to use certain critical language features, and anyone who releases a fork of the compiler without that antifeature gets banned from the project's community.
Weird. Why can’t you patch your local version to include the name of your project?
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#18I think this post captures the wave of entitlement among a group of Elm participants of that era that led to what looks like catastrophic burnout in evancz, Elm's creator. It's been a while since I watched them, and I recommend his talks, but at least one or two of his talks are centered around what is basically unfair expectations. In one talk, [bad paraphrasing, but] he compares how people's expectations of him and…
Blaming everything on "entitlement" from people who bought Elm's marketing about "making functional programming practical" is ridiculous. Thankfully there are now plenty of languages with better type systems than Elm (Rust, OCaml) that deploy to the web just fine.
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#19What I use now in-place of Elm: purescript, roc, gleam.
Re: Why I'm leaving Elm (2020)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming that you're talking about Richard Feldman, he shows up regularly but not to talk about Elm—Roc is his new project, which is inspired by Elm but not trying to target the same niche.
I kind of wish the effort spent on Roc was put into productionizing/commercializing Koka (which Roc draws a lot of inspiration from) rather than starting an entirely new language. Like I get starting from scratch when it comes to Haskell, since there’s so much baggage there, but Koka is a pretty blank slate.