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iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

hollylisle.com

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Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. This is where the line is drawn. I've grown to accept Apple's App Store policies for the sake of keeping app quality high. However, when it comes to distributing content that people actually use to learn new things and enrich their lives, there is absolutely no room for this type of policy. To anyone who is selling their books via Apple: GTFO right now.

"This is where the line is drawn." Really? I mean, yes this is clearly terrible, but if you're surprised by Apple doing this then you haven't been paying much attention the past few years. I don't begrudge people who choose to use Apple products, they certainly have their charms, but I do get slightly annoyed when they are suddenly offended when Apple does something like this because post-App Store Apple pulls crap l…

Please see my response to inerte's comment, if you have not already.

It's not that I'm surprised that Apple would do this. I am just shocked that the definition of "book" could change in front of everyone's eyes and the common person will ignore it because they enjoy Apple's "magical" devices.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#52
One and a half years ago I did the page layout for a book being produced by a team-specific sports blog. They chose to publish the book using CreateSpace, which is owned by Amazon. It was my responsibility to make certain we were in compliance with the submission requirements. I read through them and took notes of all the relevant parts.

When we submitted the book for review, it was rejected because we had quoted some books and included footnotes with links to the Amazon pages of the source materials. I double-checked the CreateSpace guidelines, and there was no reference to this requirement. When I spoke to a customer service representative, I received no helpful information, just something along the lines of, "This is the policy and no books will be approved for printing unless there is adherence." When I asked why the policy wasn't publicly documented, the person with whom I spoke, polite though she was, offered no explanation (nor any apology).

I don't recount this incident to suggest that what Apple has done here is mitigated in any way since Amazon has behaved similarly (and for all I know CreateSpace has updated its guidelines in the intervening months). My point is simply to note that organizations utilize this prerogative when they are in a position to vet the products they offer. It could be Apple, Amazon, a public library, a restaurant. Really, almost any establishment.

Personally, I'd like all of these organizations to be upfront with their policies, but they usually don't take this approach. Typically, this isn't an issue to consumers. What's different here (e.g., with the Apple content stores), I think, is our expectations. We accept that most restaurants aren't divulging what factors are involved in purchasing the ingredients used. The public library doesn't give clear guidance regarding what subjects it pursues for the books on its shelves. The doctor doesn't always explain why one drug prescription is better than the alternatives.

No, I don't think our regular acceptance of those behaviors is what we should bring to a situation like this one with Apple. Actually, quite the opposite. I would hope many of us would bring similar levels of scrutiny to other areas of life which are likely to be more beneficial to many. It seems to me there is much more to gain from critical analysis of something like drug approval methods than, say, whether Airfoil Speakers is in the App Store.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#53
post #2

Do we really want our information mediated/censored by this sort of corporate behavior?

You do now. Every book store decides what they are going to sell. We just didn't know about it before. The beauty is that any author can now simply take their books off iBooks and sell it in an open epub format and skip the distributor.

Regardless, this is a bullshit move from Apple, and it's starting to wear on me. And that's saying something, because I do love their products and forgive many missteps because I really do love their products.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#54
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the place where the line is drawn, but not when. Check https://www.google.com.br/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=4&sou... Apple can, and will, decide what expression will be published. It's not a platform, it's more like a newspaper classified section, with bias.

The difference to me is that they're calling this a "bookstore," and the thing that they're selling is supposed to be a new way of consuming the thing that we traditionally know as "books." That's what I used to believe their business was. Now, it's clear that an iBook is not a book. It is a digital material sold to people who like to consume content via their pretty and pricy devices. I agree that Apple makes it fun…

How is this different from a legacy bookstore? Apple is way more permissive than they are. You can't just walk into a legacy bookstore with a manuscript and say, "Here, sell this."

Major distribution has always meant going through filters. The publishing houses reject most of the stuff that comes through their doors, and bookstores only buy a fraction of the stuff that the publishing houses put out. If you are scandalized that Apple rejects one book out of millions, I can only suppose it's because you aren't familiar with legacy publishing. Traditionally, only a tiny fraction of books ever had a chance to be seen by readers.

(I say this not to defend Apple, per se, but to illustrate how good writers have really got it now if this is considered a subject of outrage. Just ten years ago, getting rejected was the expected outcome of trying to get a book published!)

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is where the line is drawn." Really? I mean, yes this is clearly terrible, but if you're surprised by Apple doing this then you haven't been paying much attention the past few years. I don't begrudge people who choose to use Apple products, they certainly have their charms, but I do get slightly annoyed when they are suddenly offended when Apple does something like this because post-App Store Apple pulls crap l…

Please see my response to inerte's comment, if you have not already. It's not that I'm surprised that Apple would do this. I am just shocked that the definition of "book" could change in front of everyone's eyes and the common person will ignore it because they enjoy Apple's "magical" devices.

Licensed media as "books" and "recordings" have been a wet dream for years. This is the happy ending.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#56
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the place where the line is drawn, but not when. Check https://www.google.com.br/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=4&sou... Apple can, and will, decide what expression will be published. It's not a platform, it's more like a newspaper classified section, with bias.

The difference to me is that they're calling this a "bookstore," and the thing that they're selling is supposed to be a new way of consuming the thing that we traditionally know as "books." That's what I used to believe their business was. Now, it's clear that an iBook is not a book. It is a digital material sold to people who like to consume content via their pretty and pricy devices. I agree that Apple makes it fun…

Unless I'm missing something, this is something which other "bookstores" in the offline space do routinely. The Rough Trade store down the road from me sells books which are pretty obviously curated around sections, and according to the preferences of the staff there, and, no doubt, by commercial imperatives too. If they can't make a margin they're happy with, ultimately there is no bookstore. The magical experiences in books which Rough Trade do not sell is neither here nor there, because if I don't like, value, or care for their curation, I can choose another bookstore. I don't see why this is any different.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#57
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference to me is that they're calling this a "bookstore," and the thing that they're selling is supposed to be a new way of consuming the thing that we traditionally know as "books." That's what I used to believe their business was. Now, it's clear that an iBook is not a book. It is a digital material sold to people who like to consume content via their pretty and pricy devices. I agree that Apple makes it fun…

How is this different from a legacy bookstore? Apple is way more permissive than they are. You can't just walk into a legacy bookstore with a manuscript and say, "Here, sell this." Major distribution has always meant going through filters. The publishing houses reject most of the stuff that comes through their doors, and bookstores only buy a fraction of the stuff that the publishing houses put out. If you are scanda…

It's different because via Apple's model, you are holding the bookstore in your hands. There isn't an option to go to a different bookstore down the street, or order a book from a website that will send it to you in the mail. I'm thinking about the "ideal" (to Apple) world in which schools just expect content to be consumed this way (text books are a huge and important market), and it's disgusting.

And yes, you are right. I am admittedly ignorant to the nuances and history of publishing, and am thus probably neglecting to look at this from different angles.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't see any emails about the content block that she is referring to this post. I see emails about previous issues of her having links to Amazon in her ebooks. I am very curious about this, because I doubt just saying the word "Amazon" can really be an instant rejection -- and a quick search of the iBook store shows tons of books about Amazon itself, things like "How to Self Publish on the Amazon Kindle" et al.

From http://hollylisle.com/crippling-apple-ibookstore-ethical-and... , quoting Ms Lisle: 'I received an email from Apple’s iBookstore that How To Think Sideways—Lesson 6: How to Discover (or Create) Your Story’s Market has been pulled for containing links to a “Competing Website” and that in order to have the lesson put back on sale, I’ll have to remove the offending links.' I'm strongly inclined to believe that she…

There's a difference between believing someone's honesty and trusting someone's interpretation. I believe she's being honest; that she is telling the truth as she sees it. But I would like to judge for myself what Apple said.

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a legacy bookstore? Apple is way more permissive than they are. You can't just walk into a legacy bookstore with a manuscript and say, "Here, sell this." Major distribution has always meant going through filters. The publishing houses reject most of the stuff that comes through their doors, and bookstores only buy a fraction of the stuff that the publishing houses put out. If you are scanda…

It's different because via Apple's model, you are holding the bookstore in your hands. There isn't an option to go to a different bookstore down the street, or order a book from a website that will send it to you in the mail. I'm thinking about the "ideal" (to Apple) world in which schools just expect content to be consumed this way (text books are a huge and important market), and it's disgusting. And yes, you are r…

I fail to see how there's no option to go to a different bookstore: can't you order the book from Amazon from the same iPad?

Re: iBookstore rejects Holly Lisle's writing course because she mentions Amazon

#60
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From http://hollylisle.com/crippling-apple-ibookstore-ethical-and... , quoting Ms Lisle: 'I received an email from Apple’s iBookstore that How To Think Sideways—Lesson 6: How to Discover (or Create) Your Story’s Market has been pulled for containing links to a “Competing Website” and that in order to have the lesson put back on sale, I’ll have to remove the offending links.' I'm strongly inclined to believe that she…

There's a difference between believing someone's honesty and trusting someone's interpretation . I believe she's being honest; that she is telling the truth as she sees it. But I would like to judge for myself what Apple said.

Verily. Here interpretative skills don't appear to be impaired (see her comments on [paraphrasing] 'this is not censorship it's business practice') and there is so little to interpret in being asked [initially] to remove only live links in order to get an ebook allowed that I can't readily see how it's an issue of objectivity. Hence my inclination towards trusting her presentation of the situation.

My initial thought was that it might be affiliate links she'd included but then her failure to mention such a thing would be brazen dishonesty IMO and not [accidental] situational interpretative failure or simple bias.

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