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US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

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Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#71
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only "worked" because the key personnel decided to come back. Had they decided to move on to greener pastures, the end result would've been very different.

That isn't much of a point because federal employees are much more likely to return than Twitter technical staff. Interesting approach, specially because it's not my country.

The problem with ongoing US "experiments" is how much the rest of the planet is dependent on American companies, related economics and politics, regardless of it not being our country, the schockwaves will be felt.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#72

This is LITERALLY the twitter layoffs playing out again. They fired people who had credentials and other things they needed so had to hire them back. Everything else aside why repeat the same mistakes? Just go a little slower and give agencies time to compile accurate lists of necessary employees

Problem is, it’s not backfired - the example you cited “worked”, because it rapidly identified key personnel without weeks or months of subjective analysis and political posturing by workers and their supervisors. I think in federal government the risks are much higher, and Musk is being an idiot by exposing the America public to those risks, but the feedback loop for him on these previous experiments has been positi…

Did the twitter employees come back at the same pay or did they ask for much more expensive packages since they'd been identified as crucial to operations?

Sounds like the kind of thing that could end up increasing costs rather than reducing them.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#73

This is LITERALLY the twitter layoffs playing out again. They fired people who had credentials and other things they needed so had to hire them back. Everything else aside why repeat the same mistakes? Just go a little slower and give agencies time to compile accurate lists of necessary employees

Problem is, it’s not backfired - the example you cited “worked”, because it rapidly identified key personnel without weeks or months of subjective analysis and political posturing by workers and their supervisors. I think in federal government the risks are much higher, and Musk is being an idiot by exposing the America public to those risks, but the feedback loop for him on these previous experiments has been positi…

[flagged]

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#74

This is LITERALLY the twitter layoffs playing out again. They fired people who had credentials and other things they needed so had to hire them back. Everything else aside why repeat the same mistakes? Just go a little slower and give agencies time to compile accurate lists of necessary employees

No agency is going to admit to fraud, which is not totally different than paying employees they didn't need. I'm also not a fan of the fire and rehire method, either. It does feel like more time should have been spent, from an outside agency, watching and deciding. What they're doing now is an old trick, and I'm surprised more people don't tell them to screw off.

Yeah, baseless accusations of fraud just to hide own incompetence ...

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American right has (always?) been anti-government overreach traditionally. I don't actually think Trump or Musk are particularly conservative or right wing (they'll say and do what gets them the support) but on this topic they are actually very much in line with political tradition. I think they're overshooting here and will need to correct, but I get the impression as an outsider that the American people who vot…

Grover Norquist, 2001: > I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

Frankly I don't see how you read Norquist's statement any other way: he doesn't want to abolish the government, he just wants to be sure it holds no dominion over him personally.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#76
post #11

This is LITERALLY the twitter layoffs playing out again. They fired people who had credentials and other things they needed so had to hire them back. Everything else aside why repeat the same mistakes? Just go a little slower and give agencies time to compile accurate lists of necessary employees

People should read Elon Musk by Walter Issacson. Here's an excerpt from the chapter on his "algorithm": > [Step 2] Delete any part or process you can. You may have to add them back later. In fact, if you do not end up adding back at least 10% of them, then you didn't delete enough. He thinks this is a feature, not a bug. Is he wrong? I don't think so.

The only reason you think he isnt wrong is because you think it wont impact you. I hope one day you find yourself in the same situation, even worse, then I hope you remember this comment.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#77
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should read Elon Musk by Walter Issacson. Here's an excerpt from the chapter on his "algorithm": > [Step 2] Delete any part or process you can. You may have to add them back later. In fact, if you do not end up adding back at least 10% of them, then you didn't delete enough. He thinks this is a feature, not a bug. Is he wrong? I don't think so.

If we fired 25% of the federal govt workforce, it would save 1% from the federal budget. This has nothing to do with trimming waste and everything to do with replacing the government with loyalists from top to bottom. What comes after that isn't going to be pretty.

Absolutely.

The effects are going to be felt for a good couple of decades to follow.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#78
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He thinks this is a feature, not a bug. Is he wrong? I don't think so. Twitter lost 84% of its revenue. Do you want the USA GDP to shrink that much over the next few years?

The US's GDP isn't based on the amount of bloat in its government. Sure spending finds its way into the economy, but tax dollars saved also will. As for Twitter/X - the goal isn't revenue but profit, and Twitter was not in a good shape before Elon. Musk recently noted they are barely breaking even now, and the recent sale of X debt was just above original pricing. Considering big advertisers are coming back to X, tha…

> The US's GDP isn't based on the amount of bloat in its government. Sure spending finds its way into the economy, but tax dollars saved also will.

"Bloat" presumes. "Tax dollars saved" would only be relevant — still incorrect, but relevant — if you were matching tax cuts with spending cuts, rather than trying to balance budgets.

If the USA balances its budget in a way that *somehow* has no side-effects, the GDP shrinks 7% just from that cut alone — but these cuts do have side effects so it is worse than that.

And doing using layoffs as a discovery mechanism is going to have Chesterton-fence type mistakes, where you only find what's wrong when the stuff you stop paying for is maintenance whose absence takes a while to become visible to non-domain experts. Dams will fail and flood valleys, bridges will fall into rivers, that kind of thing has gotten into the news in other countries when maintenance was forgotten.

The infrastructure that your government is responsible for is the backbone upon which the wealth of the rest of your country is built. You can eliminate the entire Federal Highway Administration and Joe Average won't notice anything for nearly a year… but if and when you do hire them back, you may have to hire back a lot more than you fired just to catch up with the damage done.

And so it goes for many other aspects of your country. CDC's also in the news now. OK, until you get your next pandemic… oh, wait, you're already having one. Nukes? You won't notice the problem until other governments no longer fear your nuclear deterrent. Armed forces in general? British didn't see any problem with shrinking their forces until the Russian invasion of Ukraine and realising how close they were to not being able to defend themselves if invaded. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration? Getting rid of that means a lot of companies can get away with skipping safety processes, so it might even seem like the economy goes up… until you get some equivalent of the Union Carbide plant in Bhopal.

> As for Twitter/X - the goal isn't revenue but profit, and Twitter was not in a good shape before Elon.

They made a profit in two of the years before he took over; an 84% revenue decline means that the company cannot even service the debt he saddled the company with during the purchase, even if he fired all remaining staff and reduced server, utility, real estate, and insurance, and all other costs to zero.

> Musk recently noted they are barely breaking even now, and the recent sale of X debt was just above original pricing.

Do you trust him?

According to this link, they sold more of their debt than they were expecting to, for more than expected to, but it was still less than they paid for it.

Going from $1b to $5.5b and from 90¢/$ to 97¢/$ is less bad rather than good.

https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/morgan-stanley-...

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#79
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should read Elon Musk by Walter Issacson. Here's an excerpt from the chapter on his "algorithm": > [Step 2] Delete any part or process you can. You may have to add them back later. In fact, if you do not end up adding back at least 10% of them, then you didn't delete enough. He thinks this is a feature, not a bug. Is he wrong? I don't think so.

I was going to mention this as well. This is pretty standard musk, delete large swaiths of stuff, see what breaks, and put the essential pieces back. It's supposed to be much faster than meticulous planning.

Yes all with no regard for the impact on people, families and their needs. Lets just make sure to focus on the need of a billionaire to create more wealth. The only reason you think like this is because you think it wont happen to you. Oh boy, I hope it does, then I hope you remember this comment. I so hope the people in here defending this bs end up on the street and impacted like the many innocent people are today. I love hearing the stories of regret from MAGA people, only more to come.

Re: US government struggles to rehire nuclear safety staff it laid off days ago

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, it’s not backfired - the example you cited “worked”, because it rapidly identified key personnel without weeks or months of subjective analysis and political posturing by workers and their supervisors. I think in federal government the risks are much higher, and Musk is being an idiot by exposing the America public to those risks, but the feedback loop for him on these previous experiments has been positi…

It only works because you allow yourself to sorely disrespect human beings, their livelihood and their feeling of safety. A strategy that seems to be hot in the US, but is an utter ethical abomination and shameful.

That is sadly life in private sector for a majority of all workers.
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