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Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

e360.yale.edu

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Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#271

Post by a_t48 »

iterateoften wrote: post #12

Having lived next to a semi-main street through a smallish California coastal city without much rain it is pretty eye opening how much black dirt and junk just coat everything next to the road. Walk down the street and touch a bush or any plant leaf and get a nice black hand in the process. The plants are covered, parked cars get covered and the inside of my apartment was covered. It wasn’t until I moved out that I s…

My parking spot is underneath both BART and 880. My poor car gets coated in dust.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#272

Post by skort »

caycep wrote: post #212
orev wrote: post #88

The Yale article and the paper both highlight the fact that EVs use regenerative braking and produce less dust. I was worried that this was a rehash of the astroturf campaign from a few years ago focusing on EV weight and how that was so bad for the environment because of tire and road wear. Unfortunately you need to read through the whole thing (instead of the headline and a few paragraphs) to see that information.

Granted, I would still rather them designed for lighter weight. But that’s a separate issue w suv culture which is bad for society and environment in general. Totally would buy a 3000 pound EV around the size of a euro hatch.

Yes! Lighter weight would help make them safer and would help with the other big issue which is road wear.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#273

Post by smileysteve »

snozolli wrote: post #183
Schiendelman wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Also, none of these discussions use up-to-date information on EV tires. Consumers aren't willing to replace their tires much more often for an EV except at the high end of the market, tire manufacturers are already making tires last much longer for EV purposes. New designs are already shedding less d…

Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim. Unless you're skidding, I don't see how braking slowly and smoothly over a longer period causes any less tire wear than braking more rapidly for a shorter time. Additionally, since this is intrinsically tied to EVs, they weigh more and thus increase ti…

Weight shift is a good reason, rear and all wheel drive Regen should result in 2+x as much contact patch, versus friction brakes typically favor the front 70/30, applying 70% of braking to only 2 tires.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#274

Post by michaelbuckbee »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #254
Scoundreller wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs can be pretty bad for tire wear, not just due to vehicle weight, but the amount of torque available (and consistently available) that leaves most ICE vehicles in the dust. Depends on driving style of course

If you have an EV and you care about health and the environment, use regenerative braking as much as humanly possible. Hint: driving fast or tailgating both increase the odds you'll have to use the friction brakes.

I like how much the EV interfaces gamify using the regenerative braking to encourage its use: regen indicators, miles per kw per trip, etc.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#275

Post by uxp100 »

93po wrote: post #233
uxp100 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weights aren’t really that much higher than ICE cars, but I don’t think anyone who has owned an EV would say they don’t go through tires faster. They do. How much due to weight, how much due to better acceleration, I don’t know, but they definitely are harder on tires.

EVs use different tires from the factory than regular cars to help increase efficiency, maybe it's about the type of tire?

That’s a factor too. My stock tires were quite soft, though they were a tire that was also used on non EVs in Nissans lineup.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#276

Post by rascul »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #152
mezzie2 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small children and 2 weeks of groceries for a family of 4-5? For 10ish miles one way? On the low end? The healthcare point is because it means that a lot of elderly Americans have medical conditions that are unattended to, injuries that never healed properly, etc. It's common, particularly in the working class, to have your body be functionally wrecked by the time you're 55 (particularly for men). If we want the elde…

Only the most rural americans live 10 miles from a grocery store. They are distributed like every two miles in the suburbs. Every half mile in the city.

I've never lived in a city or suburb in the USA that has such a distribution of grocery stores.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#277

Post by nullstyle »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #261
nullstyle wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warm is not the same as comfortable. Listen, I'm from alaska and have several family members who routinely ride bicycles to work and around town in the winter. Except when it's storming. Except when their hip hurts. Except when it's breakup. Except when they need to get groceries or run an errand across town at the end of a workday. Except ad nauseam. You still have to own a car to make life in alaska livable in the…

Why are you coming at me like I'm suggesting we ban cars

you're misreading me: I'm coming at you like you think a drive-by-link-drop to a niche product is giving a good answer to GPs valid criticism that winter biking is not very comfortable during common winter occurrences. I think you should consider a wider perspective, and when I see such behavior online I like to give a little snark back.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#278

Post by uxp100 »

Schiendelman wrote: post #175
uxp100 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weights aren’t really that much higher than ICE cars, but I don’t think anyone who has owned an EV would say they don’t go through tires faster. They do. How much due to weight, how much due to better acceleration, I don’t know, but they definitely are harder on tires.

Three or four years ago, yes. Newer EV specific tires don't seem to be wearing faster.

Unfortunately Nissan did not put such a tire on my Ariya. Good range and very quiet but very soft and only 9/32 from factory means lots of people have to replace em after 15 to 20k.

I’m replacing earlier given poor snow and rain performance. They can have em back when my lease is up.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#279

Post by rascul »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #214
hansvm wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference also comes from the grippier tires on the Model 3, the total tread volume on those tires compared to a smaller car, and that the Model 3 compared to the average car isn't apples to apples if you're looking at tire wear for ICE vs EV (to be fair, my car's too light to be apples to apples either, but if you look at comparably sized cars the Model 3 is heavier).

Electric cars don't have electric car-specific tires. If you look at comparably sized cars the Model 3 is about the same. It's roughly the same size and weight as a BMW 3 series. And they're both around the size and weight of the average new car. It's small electric cars that typically weigh more, because making the car smaller isn't the main way to make the battery smaller; reducing the range is. So then nobody real…

> Electric cars don't have electric car-specific tires.

Maybe they all don't but some do.

Re: Dust from car brakes more harmful than exhaust, study finds

#280

Post by _benedict »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #138
_benedict wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that road wear and tyre wear are caused by the same mechanism, but tyre wear is presumably caused predominantly by friction, whereas road wear is at least in part (and perhaps predominantly) caused by compression, creating pot holes by causing the earth underneath to move.

It's quite noticeable (to me at least) that the areas with highest wear are usually places that have heavy vehicles (buses and lorries) braking and accelerating. Traffic lights and bus stops will often have bumps/dips that seem to demonstrate a shearing force between the road surface layers.

I have always assumed it was just due to the uneven distribution of weight by vehicles often being stationary in the same spot, so those points are subject to more compression forces than the surrounding road surface.

If it were acceleration and deceleration I’d have expected the effect to be less localised, as breaking and accelerating happens over a much longer distance.

But, I have no actual idea. It’s just probably not friction…

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