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Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

usatoday.com

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Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#81

Post by mistercow »

irq wrote: post #37
knowtheory wrote: post #24

So, what happens in animals who swallow magnets is that on occasion, two magnets or a magnet and another object can be in different windy bits of the intestinal tract and stick together, pinching two otherwise unconnected parts of the intestine together, sometimes kinking them together sufficiently to cause a blockage, which doctors say could cause perforation of the intestine or other very bad things. So as many wil…

Some animals are purposely fed magnets to improve their health. For example, the Cow Magnet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_magnet

I think the key point there is that a cow magnet is large enough that it never gets past the rumen.

Also, if a swallowed magnet hurt 0.1% of cows, but helped the rest because cows inadvertently eat lots of metal objects, then those 0.1% are seen as necessary collateral damage in the meat and dairy industry. On the other hand, if swallowed magnets hurt 0.1% (they don't, but bear with me) of kids, then it isn't seen as a necessary evil.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#82

Post by glenra »

klez wrote: post #73
pessimizer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why regulate toys at all while there are so many car accidents?

Cars are regulated. You need a license to drive them. The fact that most accidents are caused by licensed drivers[0], though, is an interesting discussion point. [0] I don't have any data to back this up, it just seems reasonable...

You don't need a license to own a car or to drive it on your own property or to transport it (without driving it) from point A to point B. A 10-year-old can legally own a car and can legally drive it on private land. It's only driving on public roads that requires a license. So if we regulated magnets (or, heck, guns) the way we regulate cars, anybody could buy as many as they wanted of the regulated product and use it pretty freely.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#83

Post by anigbrowl »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #75
anigbrowl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the complaint ( http://i.usatoday.net/money/_pdfs/cpsc-complaint-buckyballs.... ) I'm doubling down on that. This is one of the most asinine things I've ever read. Per paragraph 36, the CPSC complains that the product warnings are ineffective because parents and caregivers don't appreciate the hazard and will continue giving the magnets to children. So adults fail to keep the product say from children,…

nails, screws, buts, bolts, and coins It's interesting, and important, that you read right over the part of the complaint where it is explained that tiny high-powered magnets are qualitiatively different and more dangerous than the other metal objects that children might typically ingest. Why? Because the completely nonintuitive nature of the danger is itself part of the danger. People think these things are less har…

No, I did not skip over that at all. I acknowledged it in the grandparent comment, because it was spelt out to me very clearly in the instructions with the first set of buckyballs I purchased. After trying two of the magnets on the membrane between my fingers and noting how powerful they were, it was obvious to me why having them exercising their magnetic attraction for each other in your intestines would be an incredibly bad thing. I did, in fact, realize the danger perfectly well.

This is why I don't put them in my mouth or nose or ear, or let children play with them. Now, while this particular mode of operation is unique to magnets, do you really think that sharp screws or small nails are going to be kind to your intestine?

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#84

Post by tptacek »

anigbrowl wrote: post #83
mechanical_fish wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nails, screws, buts, bolts, and coins It's interesting, and important, that you read right over the part of the complaint where it is explained that tiny high-powered magnets are qualitiatively different and more dangerous than the other metal objects that children might typically ingest. Why? Because the completely nonintuitive nature of the danger is itself part of the danger. People think these things are less har…

No, I did not skip over that at all. I acknowledged it in the grandparent comment, because it was spelt out to me very clearly in the instructions with the first set of buckyballs I purchased. After trying two of the magnets on the membrane between my fingers and noting how powerful they were, it was obvious to me why having them exercising their magnetic attraction for each other in your intestines would be an incre…

I think you might be surprised. The internal perforation rate of ingested foreign objects with sharp points is low. People who swallow nails are routinely told to go home, watch for the nail to pass, and contact their doctor if they develop symptoms. The mortality rate for all ingested objects is extremely low.

It is possible that even when compared with nails, magnets are uniquely dangerous.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#85

Post by mturmon »

mkramlich wrote: post #70
mturmon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a set too, and they are cool. I let my six-year-old play with them, because I trust her. She knows not to let her friends play with them. In the light of this suit, I'll have to reconsider that. They are really easy to lose, and if lost, they can be picked up and swallowed by a kid, and their parent would never know. The particular danger of strong, tiny magnets is quite non-obvious (inspecting the comments he…

> I have a set too, and they are cool. I let my six-year-old play with them, because I trust her. kids are random. much more so than adults. I strongly recommend you never let her access those things again. there's only downside, and the upside (fun, diversion, learning about magnets) can be had from alternate things, or at some future date when her judgment is better. plus give something to a kid, and it could easil…

You have a point. Now I have to find them... ;-)

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#86

Post by pessimizer »

mistercow wrote: post #79
pessimizer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for "why would you assume that you can't swallow it?", I just don't even what to say. Don't just assume that you can safely swallow shit? Because you can safely swallow things that look identical to them in every way, maybe? Would you rush your child to the emergency room because you found out they swallowed a ball bearing?

Fine, but you said that in the context of adults swallowing them, which is what I was addressing.

Sorry, they were successive statements. I wasn't actually trying to plead on the behalf of slow adults, but I probably wasn't being clear.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#87

Post by esrauch »

muyyatin wrote: post #43
esrauch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a totally ridiculous comparison. I'm not in favor of the ban, but comparing a knife (something dangerous that no sane parent would let their kid play with) to this (something less dangerous that is explicitly a toy that most parents would have no problem letting their kids play with) is ridiculous.

So if 12 parents let their children play with knives (and the children were harmed) like the 12 instances for Buckyballs, we should ban all knives? It seems like parents ignoring warning labels on an item not marketed towards children is the main issue (I wouldn't necessarily say the magnets were less dangerous either).

The difference is solely intent of the product. If bleach was being sold as a toy then it would be banned; it's only allowed because its not a toy. Lawn darts are less dangerous than knives and they were banned because they are being sold as a toy.

There is a certain threshold of danger that we accept for useful products like knives and bleach; if handled properly then there is no problem. Young children aren't expected to handle them properly. Buckyballs have no practical use and are toys that are expected to be given to children, so a similar level of danger is unacceptable.

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