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A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

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Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#81

Post by Syonyk »

croissants wrote: post #30
rufus_foreman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put that in context, when my grandparents were born, a typical family had around four children, and one in four children did not live to the age of five. It is sort of crazy to think of what it would be like to grow up in that world.

I think a modern USA 1 year old has about a 99.97% chance of making it to adulthood. That means that if a modern USA adult loses a young child, there's a decent chance they don't know anybody who has had that experience. The ancient (and even, as you point out, very slightly pre-modern) world had a lot of "infrastructure" in place to deal with this, there were rituals and ceremonies and familiar people who knew what…

It's not gone. It's just less common, and, at least in my experience, hidden inside churches where people are open about this sort of thing, and where, in a lot of them, miscarriages are treated as much the same thing, to be grieved over, as loss. Sometimes in private, but it's better when it's shared, because others have gone through the same thing, suffering silently.

But you're right, it's far harder to go through an experience alone, and loss of a child has certainly become far, far less common than it used to be. At least, if you limit it to the born.

In the US, in 2023, 1 in 3 never made it to birth.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#82

Post by Syonyk »

Trasmatta wrote: post #42

Sometimes I think that if there is a hell, we're probably in it. The amount of suffering people can experience on Earth is unfathomable sometimes. I remember the most painful moments of my life, and thinking that it's absurd that the human brain can experience this level of suffering. It doesn't make sense. If we're lucky, we can get tiny drops of joy in life, but the depths of suffering feel bottomless.

There is joy to be found. There can be peace, in this life, even walking through the worst of times. It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church.

We've invented ways to turn down the volume knob on emotions. Anti-depressants, from what I've heard, achieve this (SSRIs?). My understanding, from people who've been on them, is that it turns everything into a muted greyscale. Nothing is very bad, nothing is very good, meh. But what is the human experience except the dynamic range of emotion, rightly felt? We have a perpetual recentering, and without sorrow, without grief, there can be no true joy, because they are in the contrast. Endless joy would just become normal.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#84

Post by Trasmatta »

Syonyk wrote: post #82
Trasmatta wrote: post #42

Sometimes I think that if there is a hell, we're probably in it. The amount of suffering people can experience on Earth is unfathomable sometimes. I remember the most painful moments of my life, and thinking that it's absurd that the human brain can experience this level of suffering. It doesn't make sense. If we're lucky, we can get tiny drops of joy in life, but the depths of suffering feel bottomless.

There is joy to be found. There can be peace, in this life, even walking through the worst of times. It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church. We've invented ways to turn down the volume knob on emotions. Anti-depressants, from what I've heard, achieve this (SSRIs?). My understanding, from people who've been on them, is that it turns everything into a muted greyscale. Nothing is very ba…

> It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church.

Do you realize how incredibly dismissive it is for people to talk about the pain they feel, and to have someone respond "nah, you just haven't found Jesus yet"?

I was raised in a deeply religious household. I found no peace in Jesus. I'm happy that Christianity works for you, but this is not globally applicable advice. It's also an example of spiritual bypassing.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#85

Post by adamcblodgett »

A long time ago I saw Eric do a presentation at An Event Apart in Seattle on something like Designing for People in Crisis. He used his trip with his daughter Rebecca to the emergency room as the example of why it's crucial to have a section of your hospital webpage for people in crisis that is very easy to read and very easy to use in case of shock, trauma and emergency. Things like phone numbers and emergency room drop directions/maps.

I was familiar with Eric's work at the time, but the vulnerability he showed in using his own tragedy as an example of why websites should be, essentially, accessible for people in various states of trauma and crisis was incredibly moving and made the case for accessible design in a personal, powerful way.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#86

Post by Syonyk »

Trasmatta wrote: post #84
Syonyk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is joy to be found. There can be peace, in this life, even walking through the worst of times. It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church. We've invented ways to turn down the volume knob on emotions. Anti-depressants, from what I've heard, achieve this (SSRIs?). My understanding, from people who've been on them, is that it turns everything into a muted greyscale. Nothing is very ba…

> It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church. Do you realize how incredibly dismissive it is for people to talk about the pain they feel, and to have someone respond "nah, you just haven't found Jesus yet"? I was raised in a deeply religious household. I found no peace in Jesus. I'm happy that Christianity works for you, but this is not globally applicable advice. It's also an example of…

You're free to share a more general answer, should you have one.

And I'm free to share the answer I've found, even as I'm working through the challenges of life.

I've no idea what "spiritual bypassing" even means.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#87

Post by AdieuToLogic »

Live long enough, and a few things will happen;

What you thought important as a child seems laughable as an adult.

What you found painful never leaves you.

What you lose can shackle you to what is no more, never to be resolved, by definition moments in the past which no longer exist and are forever out of reach.

  A decade ago, I said that I felt the weight of all the
  years she would never have, and that they might crush me.
  Over time, I have come to realize all the things she never
  saw or did adds to that weight.  Even though it seems like
  it should be the same weight.  Somehow, it isn’t.

  I was talking about all of this with a therapist a few days
  ago, about the time and the losses and their accumulated
  weight.  I said, “I don’t know how to be okay when I failed
  my child in the most fundamental way possible.”

  “You didn’t fail her,” they said gently.

  “I know that,” I replied. “But I don’t feel it.”

  A decade, it turns out, does not change that.  I’m not sure
  now that any stretch of time ever could.
As @imchillyb in this thread notes:

  Time is distance. How many miles the train will travel from
  the station. Distance grants perspective and removes
  immediacy.
Here, this can only be true if we give ourself permission to "board the train", to free oneself from the shackles of loss, of guilt, of blame, to accept that time does not destroy the memory of where we were or who we were with.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#88

Post by Syonyk »

Archelaos wrote: post #76
ignoramous wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was relatively common for parents to lose children (every second child was expected to die before 5y) but even then, with all that death around them, the tragedy remained as great as today. Back then, most did look to their God for solace, though: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1goyaco/when... In the present, orthodox practitioners of Abrahamic religions, in particular, may stoically overcome such…

You sound like one of the friends of Job.

How so? They're neither questioning God's justice, nor asserting that the loss of children must be due to sin/unrighteousness/etc.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#89

Post by Trasmatta »

Syonyk wrote: post #86
Trasmatta wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's found in Jesus, and the life-on-life community known as the Church. Do you realize how incredibly dismissive it is for people to talk about the pain they feel, and to have someone respond "nah, you just haven't found Jesus yet"? I was raised in a deeply religious household. I found no peace in Jesus. I'm happy that Christianity works for you, but this is not globally applicable advice. It's also an example of…

You're free to share a more general answer, should you have one. And I'm free to share the answer I've found, even as I'm working through the challenges of life. I've no idea what "spiritual bypassing" even means.

I don't think there IS a general answer. That's the entire crux of the matter.

Re: A decade later, a decade lost (2024)

#90

Post by card_zero »

dzink wrote: post #52
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #29

The government should provide a fund for people who have experienced child loss so they never have to work again.

That would create a horrible perverse incentive to kill children for money.

Or fake their death, and lavish attention (and cash) on them until a couple of decades later the government notices they exist, it would be an interesting demographic.
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