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Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

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Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#31

[flagged]

I'll happily vote you down because political power is formed by collaboration. Excluding trans people from the liberation movement makes the gay community weaker against attacks, not stronger.

The trouble with that argument is if you consistently take the most radical position on every issue, people will leave. Either they leave outright or they just check out emotionally. That's not the same as excluding trans people. [1]

Myself I have gone out in drag in the past and seen for myself from people's microexpressions that it is not entirely safe. I think people should be safe to express whatever gender characteristics they wish whenever they want to express them. In the past 15 years the T community went through a sharp ideological bend that is reducitivist and deliberately polarizating that is making it less safe to be different from other people, not more safe. Just because I practice Foxwork and channel an entity which might be a different gender than myself means I need to endorse the self-described 'egg-hatcher' who persuaded a neurodivergent friend of my son to go down a path that hasn't solved his [2] real problems but has added more problems.

[1] speech is free, listening is priceless; want to be part of a movement, understand that movement in all its diversity, don't make a black-and-white there-is-no-alternative declaration that other people have no choice in the matter

[2] he says we can call him 'he' at this time even though she goes by 'she' at work

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#32
post #7

[flagged]

> Nobody is erasing you Except they are. The US Federal Government is actively erasing this group of people from all official web presence. It's literally why this Chrome extension exists at all.

It’s weird the way that people decide something is “political” and then swear black is white to support that political belief.

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#33
post #9
post #2

Apparently this is the background context: https://www.npr.org/2025/02/14/g-s1-48923/stonewall-monument...

I'm surprised that they bothered to replace the sign at all. I'd expect them to just remove it, the way they've eliminated all mention of homosexuality in other parts of the government. I suspect that the monument itself will be disestablished, as soon as they get around to it.

They would never remove a monument right? Or does it have to be a statue to count?

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#34
post #28

[flagged]

Allowing people to draw a line in the sand for an acceptable level of deviation from the normal leaves you open to them nudging that line just a bit further to ostracize more and more of the vulnerable. I've never been the biggest fan of the progress flag, but because I think the basic rainbow already includes all of those groups. I've never loved it more than I do now that I've heard the idea that people prefer the…

Who said there is a line?

That's the kind of black and white and moralistic thinking that are causing people to distance themselves from today's ideological transgenderists.

I can support your right to be safe as a person but not believe everything you say or state that your ideology and tactics are wrong. You get ahead in this world and gain acceptance through practical thinking, not moralistic thinking.

I grew up in a lily-white city, some of the first black people I met were a couple where the man was an engineer at the Raytheon plant that made Patriot missiles. My family was out riding our bikes and one of us got a flat, they helped us fix it and gave us some lemonade in my kitchen. After that I wanted to see more black people move to my town.

The first transgender person I met was a great engineering student, amateur astronomer, and science fiction fan. I found out all those things before I found out she was transgender. She got kicked out of the air force academy but our nation's loss was my gain.

When I got on Mastodon I was just shocked with how many transgender people were sharing hateful image memes, complaining about everybody else and insisting that everybody else's thoughts and feelings were wrong, like all the rest of us didn't have the right to make any decisions at all. If that was the first thing I'd ever seen of transgenderism I'd think it was a disease.

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll happily vote you down because political power is formed by collaboration. Excluding trans people from the liberation movement makes the gay community weaker against attacks, not stronger.

The trouble with that argument is if you consistently take the most radical position on every issue, people will leave. Either they leave outright or they just check out emotionally. That's not the same as excluding trans people. [1] Myself I have gone out in drag in the past and seen for myself from people's microexpressions that it is not entirely safe. I think people should be safe to express whatever gender chara…

> don't make a black-and-white there-is-no-alternative declaration that other people have no choice in the matter

say the person who quite literally can't accept that there can be more than three letters in an acronym, less the entire world order be thrown to the wind

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is erasing you Except they are. The US Federal Government is actively erasing this group of people from all official web presence. It's literally why this Chrome extension exists at all.

It’s weird the way that people decide something is “political” and then swear black is white to support that political belief.

In what way can the government ever do anything that isn't political?

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#38

[flagged]

Alright, sure, some of the flag designs are not well done, but I doubt you're talking about vexillology.

Queer just refers to "not straight". It's a general term. Bisexual people have made up their minds, they like more than one gender. Asexual people face stigma just the same as gay and lesbian people do. They're all just different sexualities that differ from the norm, so why not include them together? It really doesn't erase any individual community in my experience.

As far as intersex and trans people are concerned, maybe you just haven't thought it out that much. Of course intersex people would feel differently about surgeries performed on them than trans people would. The former had a surgery forced on them without consent. The latter choses (or not) to have something done. Incels very clearly have nothing to do with "cis-het" discourse.

Even if I was to disregard all of that, trans people still belong in the community for the simple reason that they're a large part of how the modern queer community has formed. They've faced the same stigmas as lesbian and gay folks. Even within lesbian and gay communities, there's been quite a lot of gender-nonconformity (look into lesbian movements in the 70's for example).

Trans people exist and have for much longer than you probably realize. Maybe you need to go back to your roots and actually talk to some trans people. You might realize that the popular caricature isn't as accurate as you seem to think.

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#39
post #11

[flagged]

Wording has changed throughout history as has our understanding of gender and sexuality. While the specific word "transgender" may not have existed, it's still true that she lived as a woman at the time. At the very least, you can't argue that there's gender-nonconformity going on there. The fact that the Stonewall monument was targeted for removing references of "trans" should hint at why the author of the extension…

> it's still true that she lived as a woman at the time

That's an awfully sexist perspective, isn't it?

A man acting out some feminine stereotypes doesn't somehow become a woman by doing so.

Re: Marsha P Johnson: A Chrome extension to highlight trans erasure

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were laws in many places in the states that banned "crossdressing" which was applied to trans and gay people alike. While the specific term "transgender" hasn't been around very long, the gay community has always included a lot of gender-nonconformity. It's part of the reason gender is lumped in with sexuality in the first place. Anti-homosexuality laws would've applied to trans people as well. I still remember…

I was asking about any law that made gender expression illegal. Using any kind of terminology.

In that case, yes there were. They were generally worded as anti-crossdressing laws, but that is what they were. Here's a quick excerpt from the wikipedia article on cross-dressing that sums it up well:

> The birth of anti-cross-dressing laws (also known as masquerade laws and the three-article rule)[31] stemmed from the increase in non-traditional gender expression during the spread of America's frontier, and the will to reinforce the two-gender system which was threatened by those who deviated from it.[32] Some of the earlier cases of US arrests made due to cross-dressing are seen in 19th century Ohio. In 1848, Ohio passed a law which prohibited its citizens from publicly presenting themselves "in a dress not belonging to his or her sex," and during the 1850s, over 40 cities in the US went on to pass anti-cross-dressing laws.[33] By the time the US entered WWI, over 150 cities had passed anti-cross-dressing ordinances.

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