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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#911

Post by sanderjd »

panza wrote: post #686
rdtsc wrote: post #209

A person can be in a tough spot personally and then things seem to spiral out of control around them because that just cannot be 100% isolated from professional stuff or other spheres of life. It seems like this might have happened to Hector based on the post. We've all been there and that part is completely understandable. > I get that some people might not have liked my Mastodon posts. Yes, I can be abrasive someti…

> "If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas." This is just an incredibly odd thing to say. It's so obviously out of line that it seems like someone's joking around. The Rust community (generally-speaking) just can't see why people have a visceral reaction against them, independent of its technical qualities. In all my years, I've not seen anything like it.

Mightn't it just be that it's a newer technology, which newness has attracted a younger crowd, and this happens to be part of the younger culture right now, more broadly?

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#912

Post by kennysoona »

account42 wrote: post #910
kennysoona wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can literally shove facts in someone's face, and they won't admit to being wrong or misunderstand, and instead continue to argue against some points whose premise isn't even true. This is like probably 80% of people and fundamentally why the world is a hellscape instead of a utopia.

Maybe try not shoving things into people's faces and you'll find them to be much friendlier.

Nah, that's not the case. Not for that 80%. And even if they are friendlier, being willfully ignorant with a smile and a nod doesn't make it better.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#913

Post by firesteelrain »

zoogeny wrote: post #750
firesteelrain wrote: post #91

Staying away from the emotional part of this blog post. I was about to write a question to ask why, if these downstreams are forked, that it is such a big deal to be gatekeeping the upstream and I think I got my answer from this: "In fact, the Linux kernel development model is (perhaps paradoxically) designed to encourage upstreaming and punish downstream forks. While it is possible to just not care about upstream an…

I was thinking the same on this. It is a classic case of division of responsibility. The argument appears to be: should we force a small number of downstream maintainers to suffer a big maintenance burden or should we make upstream handle a smaller burden. Martin's position rests on his claim that the big maintenance burden he would be forced to bear is unfair. I mean, he is the one who chose Rust. No one forced that…

Agree, these are not the real issues. He has some personal issues going on and is blaming this thing or things as the source of his problems which they are not. It seems he needs some emotional maturity and resilience too.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#914

Post by kllrnohj »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #813
kllrnohj wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's objectionable is primarily the phrase "thin blue line" - it's highly politically charged language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line One would hope it was just a particularly bad gaffe, but it could also be an insight into how he actually views himself as a maintainer which is not great.

It is most certainly not politically charged language. It's an anodyne statement referring to being a small force keeping bad things from happening. That's all.

While words change and it rapidly escalated over the last 10 years, it's been about police brutality/misconduct for at least 50 years now.

Using phrases whose meaning you're unaware of is generally risky behavior. Trying to claim it meant something other than what the common lexicon says it means is just asinine.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#915

Post by steveklabnik »

gsck wrote: post #906
kllrnohj wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should click through some of the links to see where the clashes actually happened. It didn't have anything to do with the actual hardware support. Rather, it was over stupid shit like the kernel DMA team throwing a hissy fit over the idea of there being Rust bindings for the DMA interface: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250108122825.136021-3-abdiel.... When the response to such a small contribution is just "No ru…

"No rust code in kernel/dma, please" is a totally reasonable request though, once again it comes down to who supports it? When 99% of the kernel is written in C it makes sense to keep it C. If you start introducing new languages that most maintainers are not anywhere near as familiar with, you create an unmaintainable mess. Linux isn't a hobby project anymore, its critical infrastructure. You can just introduce chang…

But since the patch didn’t include any code in kernel/dma, it comes across as “I didn’t even read the patch.”

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#916

Post by seba_dos1 »

prmoustache wrote: post #862
bayindirh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not realizing that is a sure road to burnout (and yes, I'm just as guilty of that myself). Humans are shaped by experience. This is both a boon and a curse. I have been also been on the hot end of the stick and burned myself down, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly. Understanding that I don't want to go through this anymore was the point I started to change. > Collaborating on software development is a social act…

It really depends what kind of code and for which usage. People might also live their hobby dev experience better if they were really coding for themselves without any expectation except pushing the code to a repo. As a hobby dev, you don't have to make package, you don't have to have an issue tracker, you don't have to accept external contributions, you don't have to support your users if you aren't willing to have…

This works perfectly fine as long as you're happy with being approximately the only user of your code. With some of my projects I do just that, but it gets very different once you add users to the mix.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#917

Post by kllrnohj »

gsck wrote: post #906
kllrnohj wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should click through some of the links to see where the clashes actually happened. It didn't have anything to do with the actual hardware support. Rather, it was over stupid shit like the kernel DMA team throwing a hissy fit over the idea of there being Rust bindings for the DMA interface: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250108122825.136021-3-abdiel.... When the response to such a small contribution is just "No ru…

"No rust code in kernel/dma, please" is a totally reasonable request though, once again it comes down to who supports it? When 99% of the kernel is written in C it makes sense to keep it C. If you start introducing new languages that most maintainers are not anywhere near as familiar with, you create an unmaintainable mess. Linux isn't a hobby project anymore, its critical infrastructure. You can just introduce chang…

Rust in Linux has official blessing. 99% of the kernel being in C is irrelevant, it's not a C-only kernel anymore officially.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#918

Post by caspper69 »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #892
caspper69 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because many of them are still relatively young. There is nothing wrong with youth, but it can contribute to over-zealousness. Also, for many of them, Rust is the first systems language they've ever touched. And that fact alone excites them. Because now they can "dream big" too. But they have bought into the whole C/C++ are by default insecure and therefore garbage. In their mind, no mortal could ever write so much a…

> A programming language is not a religion. It is not a way of life. It is a tool. It's not like it's a text editor or something. I really hope that last sentence was a joke.

It was :)

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#919

Post by maples37 »

darthrupert wrote: post #867
tcmart14 wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a few reasons. For Darwin, there are a few small projects but I think they are all functionally dead. The benefit with Linux, or even the BSDs here is, sure you gotta port to the hardware, but you should get a good set of user land stuff running for 'free' after that. Lots of programs just need to be compiled to target arm64 and they will at the very minimum function a little bit. Then you can have package m…

Why insist on developing in Rust? I mean, I see how it's much cooler and actually better than something like C, but people are hugely underestimating how difficult it is to change the established language of a 3 decade old project. If Rust is the point you get up from the bed in the morning, why don't you focus on Redox and make it the new Linux? Redox today is much more than Linux was in 1991 so it's not like you wo…

I remember reading one of the earlier Asahi Linux blog posts on HN a while ago: https://asahilinux.org/2022/11/tales-of-the-m1-gpu/

Mind you, I'm a PHP developer by day, so this Rust-vs-C debate and memory management stuff is not something I've had experience with personally, but the "Rust is magical" section towards the bottom seems like a good summary of why the developer chose to use Rust.

Discussion at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33789940

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#920

Post by LocutusOfBorges »

cchcch wrote: post #785
LocutusOfBorges wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then marcan told his supportes to fuck off unless they commit to supporting his political ideas, which I was not willing to do. Is this about Marcan’s outspoken support for transgender people? If so, why not simply say that in your comment, rather than framing it in such vague terms?

Comments like this are why people find transactivists so irritating. Whether they happen to agree with them or not. No-one even mentioned transgender issues yet here you are bringing them up to start an argument. Not everything is about trans you know.

Given that this is seemingly the thing for which he’s most known, politically, it doesn’t seem remotely unreasonable to infer that the person I was replying to was talking about it. It’s absurd to take this evasiveness as anything other than bad faith.

If the group in question were gay people, or a racial minority, would you still treat the issue this way?

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