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Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

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Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#401

Post by sgerenser »

sega_sai wrote: post #400
throw098320923 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pension Not sure that is a perk. In EU (not sure about this exact offer in Norway) to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). But it is mandatory social insurance (tax) of 10% to 40% of your income.

You mean similar to social security in the US ? Where you only can get anything out of it if you have enough credits? In fact it is similar in many countries (i.e. UK) where there is a minimum period required to get anything

In the U.S. you only need 40 credits (10 years) to get anything out of it. Less if you collect early due to disability. Not sure how similar this is to any of the EU pension schemes being discussed.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#402

Post by spicyusername »

jvanderbot wrote: post #203
palmotea wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. Not surprising at all. It's a forum run by a VC firm populated with a decent number of people who are wannabe founders, trying to jump on the latest fad, hoping to win the startup jackpot. And (way back when it was small), I think a big part of the appeal was you could rub shoulders with some VC people and fo…

I don't get it. I was neither a nepo baby or aspiring monk. What I was, was a kid from a non academic family who wanted more than my small town education could provide. I wanted to push myself to learn at a deeper level and prove it by becoming one of a different crowd of technologists. Maybe these are misguided motivations but they were undeniable and not at all about asceticism or idle riches. It was absolutely wor…

I think it's hard for some people to understand why other people would choose to be poor.

And so it must be that people who choose to get a PhD come from means.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#403

Post by thorin »

cudgy wrote: post #122
null_shift wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he already knew how to code in other object oriented languages, and was really just learning C++ syntax over the weekend, it’s not as much of a stretch.

C++ is one of the most flexible and unopinionated languages you could ever encounter. The idea that someone who knows a high-level object-oriented language could translate that to immediate success in low-level C++ syntax at a level higher than the experts that developed the libraries over a weekend is frankly fantastical.

It's more likely that he was a decent C developer and learnt the basics of C++ and then ignored most of it.

C++ --

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#404

Post by vishnugupta »

xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

PhD is a really big investment. You are spending 4-6 years of your prime earning years chasing a dream or in the hope of making a dent in your domain’s problems.

All that while your age mates from school/college/town are progressing in their life and career.

Also if you get into non-academic job then those early years foregone usually have disproportionately bigger impact on your career progression and your accumulated wealth.

The decision is really big one and it’s only natural to consider money angle. I’ve known quite a few get into it because of interest and then getting disillusioned as they watch the world pass them by.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#405

Post by UncleMeat »

__rito__ wrote: post #287
ohbleek wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I thnk it does occur to people, but that's a choice for nepo babies and aspiring monks. Maybe you've only spent time around PhD candidates at Ivy League schools where people are more likely to have access to wealth, but if you've spent any time at all around PhD candidates you'll find this is generally not the case. As a PhD candidate from a lower SE class, I've found that the majority of my peers are from a similar…

> while the majority of Social Sciences doctoral students are from a lower SE class I am speaking solely from anecdotes, but Social Science grad students generally have a Rabbi from early on their career. That is, they are favorite students, close students to at least one powerful/influential figure in their field. A lot of favoritism and a different kind of nepotism play an important part Social Sciences academia. A…

Every PhD applicant needs letters of recommendation. You get those from faculty members who think that you are skilled. If you go look at the incoming class of CS PhDs at the top 20 schools, you'll find that basically every single one has a good relationship with at least one faculty member. Callouts of social sciences and the use of "rabbi" are baffling here.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#406

Post by vishnugupta »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #351
jajko wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you decide after your PhD, that you’ll join the industry, you’ve lost out on 5 years of compounded growth financially and personally. It’s not like a PhD gets you more money in 95% of the jobs. 5 years of professional experience beat a phd title in 98-99% of IT job searches, no question there. I would even more deeply probe such a candidate for good personality match with rest of the team and company overall…

So you want coworkers who don't care much for the quality of their coding work?

You don’t need a PhD to be better at or care about quality of coding.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#407

Post by jvanderbot »

pedrosorio wrote: post #221
jvanderbot wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. I was neither a nepo baby or aspiring monk. What I was, was a kid from a non academic family who wanted more than my small town education could provide. I wanted to push myself to learn at a deeper level and prove it by becoming one of a different crowd of technologists. Maybe these are misguided motivations but they were undeniable and not at all about asceticism or idle riches. It was absolutely wor…

> learn at a deeper level and prove it by becoming one of a different crowd of technologists The “prove you’re special” motivation is definitely a strong third reason that does not align with the nepotism baby or monk archetypes

Labor specialization is not a deeply suboptimal strategy. Is that a better way of putting it?

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#408

Post by jvanderbot »

f1shy wrote: post #375
jvanderbot wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. I was neither a nepo baby or aspiring monk. What I was, was a kid from a non academic family who wanted more than my small town education could provide. I wanted to push myself to learn at a deeper level and prove it by becoming one of a different crowd of technologists. Maybe these are misguided motivations but they were undeniable and not at all about asceticism or idle riches. It was absolutely wor…

So you are in the group perusing money.

Money was not the motivation. One of my lab mates left to join the startup scene and now is crazy wealthy. I just loved the study and being outside with robots trying to do good work. I don't know why this is so hard to believe. Now I do ok as most senior software engineers do, but about 1/3 or 1/2 of a starting FAANG comp, let alone senior.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#409

Post by eirikbakke »

RobotToaster wrote: post #387
mnky9800n wrote: post #352

Incidentally if you are interested in doing a PhD the University of oslo has 64 open phd and postdoc positions currently. PhDs will get a competitive salary (typically something like 50-55k USD/year, this is much higher than anything in USA for example), free healthcare, pension, in the first year you qualify for cheap student housing if you have moved from abroad, and tbh, Norway is kind of nice to live in in my opi…

I assume having to learn Norwegian is a small issue?

Norwegians love to speak English.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#410

Post by entropi »

xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

Most of us do need to work for a living. Researching for the sake of research, and learning purely because one is interested in the subject is nice and all, but it is a luxury few can afford.

I think it is beneficial for everyone that the money angle for PhD is openly discussed and made public. This way, the correct audience (those who don't need to work for a living, i.e. born rich) might be attracted instead of burning out middle/lower class youth with dreams.

...Or steps can be taken to change PhD programs. Which does not seem likely.

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