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Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

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Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#371

Post by portaouflop »

kgwgk wrote: post #369
throw098320923 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pension Not sure that is a perk. In EU (not sure about this exact offer in Norway) to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). But it is mandatory social insurance (tax) of 10% to 40% of your income.

> In EU to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). Quite far from the truth. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/sta... Eligibility periods In some EU countries, you must have worked for a minimum period of time to be entitled to a pension. In such cases, the pension authority has to take into account all the periods you've worked in other E…

In reality the system is already breaking down bc so few people pay into the pension system for so many old pensioners. Idk about Norway tbh - they seem to have a much more solid social system - but in Germany I don’t expect anything from the pension system in 2060+

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#372

Post by epgui »

__rito__ wrote: post #287
ohbleek wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I thnk it does occur to people, but that's a choice for nepo babies and aspiring monks. Maybe you've only spent time around PhD candidates at Ivy League schools where people are more likely to have access to wealth, but if you've spent any time at all around PhD candidates you'll find this is generally not the case. As a PhD candidate from a lower SE class, I've found that the majority of my peers are from a similar…

> while the majority of Social Sciences doctoral students are from a lower SE class I am speaking solely from anecdotes, but Social Science grad students generally have a Rabbi from early on their career. That is, they are favorite students, close students to at least one powerful/influential figure in their field. A lot of favoritism and a different kind of nepotism play an important part Social Sciences academia. A…

This is such a bizarre comment through and through.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#373

Post by Amezarak »

zipy124 wrote: post #366
Amezarak wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (typically something like 50-55k USD/year, this is much higher than anything in USA for example), This is not my experience (close friend in a flyover state makes 55k), so I googled and found this website: https://postdocsalaries.com/results 55k looks to be well within the normal range of American postdoc salaries.

You've looked at postdoc salaries, not PhD salaries. very different. For example in the UK a PhD will get somewhere aroun £19-21k a year, whilst a postdoc will get anywhere from £37-45k a year......

Thanks for the correction, posting too early in the morning. :)

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#374

Post by f1shy »

palmotea wrote: post #180
xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

> From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. Not surprising at all. It's a forum run by a VC firm populated with a decent number of people who are wannabe founders, trying to jump on the latest fad, hoping to win the startup jackpot. And (way back when it was small), I think a big part of the appeal was you could rub shoulders with some VC people and fo…

> I think it does occur to people, but that's a choice for nepo babies and aspiring monks.

This is my experience. Or in another way of saying it: either they persue the money, or they have already the money, or yes, want to be "monks" but that must be like 0.01%. Most of the people I know come from rich families, or want to be the next rich familiy.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#375

Post by f1shy »

jvanderbot wrote: post #203
palmotea wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. Not surprising at all. It's a forum run by a VC firm populated with a decent number of people who are wannabe founders, trying to jump on the latest fad, hoping to win the startup jackpot. And (way back when it was small), I think a big part of the appeal was you could rub shoulders with some VC people and fo…

I don't get it. I was neither a nepo baby or aspiring monk. What I was, was a kid from a non academic family who wanted more than my small town education could provide. I wanted to push myself to learn at a deeper level and prove it by becoming one of a different crowd of technologists. Maybe these are misguided motivations but they were undeniable and not at all about asceticism or idle riches. It was absolutely wor…

So you are in the group perusing money.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#376

Post by throw098320923 »

kgwgk wrote: post #369
throw098320923 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pension Not sure that is a perk. In EU (not sure about this exact offer in Norway) to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). But it is mandatory social insurance (tax) of 10% to 40% of your income.

> In EU to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). Quite far from the truth. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/sta... Eligibility periods In some EU countries, you must have worked for a minimum period of time to be entitled to a pension. In such cases, the pension authority has to take into account all the periods you've worked in other E…

> to assess whether you're entitled to a pension

But that is what I am talking about! Maybe you get something, maybe not! And nobody knows if Norway will be in EU in 30 years from now!

This is not a stake where you get 10% share of your pension, for working there 3 years (10% of 30 years), but very vague promise.

> all the periods you've worked in other EU countries

What if I worked OUTSIDE of EU? I worked 15 years in Norway, than moved back to US.... Now I am freeloader and get NOTHING!!!

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#377

Post by f1shy »

darth_avocado wrote: post #257
xanderlewis wrote: post #165

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

> From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money centric place. It’s not HN. It’s the fact that doing PHD is only a reasonable choice if you either want to get into academia long term or you come from wealth. (Historically science and research was a rich people thing, and only became accessible once student loans were more accessible) I genuinely considered doing PhD after my Masters degree.…

Even if my background is different, I did not have debt, and would not directly have incurred in debt by doing a PhD, there was no way I could justify it. At some point I would have to start earning serious money for me and my family. No way I could delay all 5 years, to have a title that would help me in no measurable amount to earn more money later. The ROI of a PhD (if you see merely as a financial decision) makes just no sense.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#378

Post by f1shy »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #351
jajko wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you decide after your PhD, that you’ll join the industry, you’ve lost out on 5 years of compounded growth financially and personally. It’s not like a PhD gets you more money in 95% of the jobs. 5 years of professional experience beat a phd title in 98-99% of IT job searches, no question there. I would even more deeply probe such a candidate for good personality match with rest of the team and company overall…

So you want coworkers who don't care much for the quality of their coding work?

That is NOT what he wrote! Is about finding an optimum of all the variables. Also "the best technical solution" is not always the best solution for a company, which at the end, cares only about making money.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#379

Post by TypingOutBugs »

portaouflop wrote: post #371
kgwgk wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In EU to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). Quite far from the truth. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/sta... Eligibility periods In some EU countries, you must have worked for a minimum period of time to be entitled to a pension. In such cases, the pension authority has to take into account all the periods you've worked in other E…

In reality the system is already breaking down bc so few people pay into the pension system for so many old pensioners. Idk about Norway tbh - they seem to have a much more solid social system - but in Germany I don’t expect anything from the pension system in 2060+

Norway has an insane sovereign wealth fund worth 3x GDP that they can only withdraw 3% from per year and that oil sales go into (as they’re basically self sufficient on hydroelectricity), they own 1.5% of all global equities. Their pension system is probably the strongest in the world.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#380

Post by chongli »

portaouflop wrote: post #371
kgwgk wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In EU to get ANY money out of pension, you have to work like 30 years at the very same country (not EU). Quite far from the truth. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/sta... Eligibility periods In some EU countries, you must have worked for a minimum period of time to be entitled to a pension. In such cases, the pension authority has to take into account all the periods you've worked in other E…

In reality the system is already breaking down bc so few people pay into the pension system for so many old pensioners. Idk about Norway tbh - they seem to have a much more solid social system - but in Germany I don’t expect anything from the pension system in 2060+

Norway’s pension is backed by $1.74T in sovereign wealth funds [1]. I doubt they’ll have the same issues as Germany.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

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