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Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

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Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#181

Credit Suisse here in Switzerland used to only hire PhDs for programming positions. It didn’t matter what the PhD was in - they’d train you how to program. Note: credit Suisse collapsed a few years ago and now no longer exists.

“Collapsed” It was acquired by UBS in 2023.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#182
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why pay an American worker 100k + benefits out of college when you can pay an H1B worker 60k for the same level of education and also have a massive amount of leverage over them?

Because this is ostensibly illegal, and it would be nice if someone enforced the fucking law (H1Bs must be paid the market rate, and it's supposed to be enforced by the Department of Labor). But the entirety of US government apparati are geared toward helping big corps make money. It's just a question of which big corps (modern Democratic party is soooo captured by Big Tech). Of course, one of them also supports fasc…

On H1B, its abuses, and big tech capture in general, it's a shame we can't generally admit that the democrats are terrible on this without others perceiving this as an endorsement of everything the other side wants to do.

Both major parties suck really bad here. I'm not partisan anymore, I'll vote split-ticket for whatever individual best represents my individual interests because if I'm going to exercise my apparently useless vote, I might as well use it to meekly voice my preferences in the extremely remote chance someone will decide pretending to give a shit would be helpful for them.

Our problems predate the current regime and they'll last past it. Pretty pessimistic if I'm honest.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#183

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

> It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research

Why is it surprising? The market is saying most people don’t have that privilege and academia is still in denial about that and completely out of touch, your surprise suggests you are… in touch? if this was a standardized test question, which you’re probably good at, you would not choose that answer

Both the private and public sector have co-opted university credentials as prerequisites for employment, leading a different audience to demand and feel entitled to being accepted at universities

I will give you something though: I agree this is all a mistake and the universities will outlive this 100 year folly of the plebs wanting to be there for employment, and revert to being half millennium old networking and refinement clubs for upper class children

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#184

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

The only difference between a PhD and a hobby is money, or the presumption of it indirectly (certain jobs, etc) Or else we just call it pursing our natural hobbies and interests. You don't need to go to school for that. If you didn't need more money you wouldn't seek the accreditation.

Some people study things that require actual equipment. People who have the money to run a nuclear physics lab in their house are very rare.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#185

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

[deleted]

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#186

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

>It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research.

That's why I did a PhD, but of course, I'd still like some job security at the end of the pipeline. Currently a postdoc.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#187
Honestly, from the stories I hear... Obviously,the money is one factor, but even if people got a little bit more money, they would still go for a PhD (at least in europe, where you don't need to go under debt so much, if you need to). The problem is that a lot of people don't even receive more money than people with Msc or even less. That's just too bad (even if in some countries this is not only illegal, but people actually follow the law - which is not something you should take for granted).

But even after the money consideration... you still have all the "lost credibility" in the system, because the institutions are not properly funded, and also because science is very dependent on grants,politics, and stupid criteria + nepotism and corruption inside the institutions, etc. That goes beyond PhD applications to even "who can sell the coffee in campus". On PhD apps, I will never forget when one of my housemate just said to me that he would leave the country because one teacher said to him in advance that he would not enter on PhD, because everything was bought out.

I think this is only the ""beginning"" of at least 10+ years of colleges having a hard time/ losing credibility year after year (sometimes because they are failing, and other times because they dare to have opinions different than people like Musk, which is not fair for academia). Either way, should I feel sorry for them? For the institutions, sure. But for the people who rule the institutions right now? My only fear is that they will be substituted by even worse individuals.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#188

I considered a PhD in machine learning. It’s mostly downsides. Granted, most fields are not like this but: 1) The field moves too fast to focus on a single thing for 4 years. A lot of people were devastated when ChatGPT essentially solved their NLP tasks. 2) Cutting edge NLP/vision research is being done in industrial labs as much as universities. And industry will probably outgun you with equipment (GPUs) and high q…

What sort of benefits come from getting a Masters? Everyone I talk to seems to say a Masters in CompSci is useless, and that you may as well do a PhD instead.

Machine learning could be hardware as well. I'm in integrated circuit design and there are lots of custom hardware AI accelerators in development. Almost all of the new grads we hire have a masters degree in electrical or computer engineering (not computer science)

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#189
post #144
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is one of the most flexible and unopinionated languages you could ever encounter. The idea that someone who knows a high-level object-oriented language could translate that to immediate success in low-level C++ syntax at a level higher than the experts that developed the libraries over a weekend is frankly fantastical.

> the experts that developed the libraries over a weekend is frankly fantastical. this is not synonymous with "most [C++ programmers] in industry" The claim was the person learned it better than most people in industry, not most people writing the libraries upon which the industry is based EDIT: Also we don't technically know when this happened. If this story is from the 1990s, it's a lot more likely, because think o…

Also it's constrained to "most people I've met in industry". If OP doesn't work with C++ developers...

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#190

From the discussion here, it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place. Somewhat surprising. It doesn’t even seem to occur to people that one might pursue a doctoral degree because one is interested in the subject and wants to do research . It’s always talked about as if getting a PhD is just another rung in a long ladder towards… earning a lot of money? Not only that — it’s apparently such an obvious…

> it seems that HN turns out to be a very money-centric place

Counter - I recently asked a faculty candidate how he would recruit curious, talented graduate students, and he said “I develop connections from interesting online communities like Hacker News.” I loved this answer because it’s consistent with my observations. HN may seem cynical but the average level of potential PhD students is higher than many alternatives!

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