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Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

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Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#71

Post by submain »

dakiol wrote: post #37

I would do a PhD if they paid me enough. I don't mind if I cannot find a job that pays well with a PhD (I actually don't need a PhD for that); I would do the PhD because I like doing research. What would bother me is to spent ~4-5 years without a decent income. The scholarships here in western europe are just too low, and I cannot justify not working for private companies in favor or pursuing a PhD during ~4-5 years

I love doing research. I published a minor unimportant paper in undergrad and had a blast doing it.

Then at graduation I was offered a well paid job in the industry. Decided to pursue it as opposed to spending 5-6 more years in academia looking for grants.

Would love to go back and get a PhD, but the economics just don't make sense for me. For now, it's a retirement plan.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#72

Post by mateo411 »

jlarocco wrote: post #30

As a software engineer, a PhD doesn't seem worth it. It's a lot of work and time, and most companies don't particularly need PhDs. Maybe a PhD gets a boost in pay starting out, but 5 years of experience cancels out most of the benefit. I suppose PhDs can get a shortcut into Prinicple or Senior roles, so there's some tangible benefit. On the other hand, if a company is hiring PhDs and doing research, I feel those jobs…

> Maybe a PhD gets a boost in pay starting out

My sense is you might get paid when you start what an undergraduate makes after one year and a pay raise.

Your career will probably develop faster than the person who started working after undergrad. Your ceiling is likely hire.

I don't have a PhD, but this is what I've observed.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#73

Post by drawkward »

DanielHB wrote: post #69
daft_pink wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great thing about PhD programs is you generally don’t end them with 6 figures in college debt from the degree. As long as you get the PhD in something that gives you a marketable skill, it’s not going to hurt too much vs all the MBAs and Lawyers I know with a ton of debt and just marginally increased career choices.

You are discarding opportunity cost in your assessment.

Their assessment seems to be talking about the debt load, in which case, the opportunity cost isnt especially relevant.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#74

Post by fhars »

DanielHB wrote: post #69
daft_pink wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great thing about PhD programs is you generally don’t end them with 6 figures in college debt from the degree. As long as you get the PhD in something that gives you a marketable skill, it’s not going to hurt too much vs all the MBAs and Lawyers I know with a ton of debt and just marginally increased career choices.

You are discarding opportunity cost in your assessment.

The counter party to your opportunity costs doesn't send collection agencies, though.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#75

Post by nluken »

jlarocco wrote: post #30

As a software engineer, a PhD doesn't seem worth it. It's a lot of work and time, and most companies don't particularly need PhDs. Maybe a PhD gets a boost in pay starting out, but 5 years of experience cancels out most of the benefit. I suppose PhDs can get a shortcut into Prinicple or Senior roles, so there's some tangible benefit. On the other hand, if a company is hiring PhDs and doing research, I feel those jobs…

A PhD isn't like a MBA which is meant mostly for the credential and associated pay bump. It's a research degree that you get if you want to work in academia or in a private research lab. If you're evaluating it purely by its economic value, of course it's not going to make sense, but that assessment misses why people pursue these degrees in the first place.

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#76

Post by BeetleB »

morelandjs wrote: post #48

The smartest people I’ve ever worked with to date were from physics grad school. Still remember the time my coworker was doing code profiling, decided he was unhappy that the exponential function from the standard library was too slow, and decided to write a Taylor series approximation that gave him the precision he needed and cut the run time in half. He also learned C++ in a weekend and was vastly better at it by t…

I don't want to take away from his brilliance, but generally Taylor approximations perform far worse than the standard library implementations. It's also the first tool of choice for physicists, so who knows ...?

My guess, though, is that if he improved the performance, he used some other wizardry (Chebyshev or something similar).

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#77

Post by AtlasBarfed »

dakiol wrote: post #37

I would do a PhD if they paid me enough. I don't mind if I cannot find a job that pays well with a PhD (I actually don't need a PhD for that); I would do the PhD because I like doing research. What would bother me is to spent ~4-5 years without a decent income. The scholarships here in western europe are just too low, and I cannot justify not working for private companies in favor or pursuing a PhD during ~4-5 years

Aren't grad school students just another form of visa-indentured labor by now?

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#78

Post by bowsamic »

Empact wrote: post #12

Distinctions only hold esteem over time if they are worthy of it. The last two PhD’s that crossed my feed had dissertations on “The Architecture of Whiteness” https://x.com/garrett_rhianna/status/1889609612367700377 And “The Politics of Smell” https://x.com/drallylouks/status/1868782615324770561 If the PhD is losing its lustre, it’s because the Universities took the shine off.

I’m really confused at how you don’t see value in such theses

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#79

Post by bowsamic »

Empact wrote: post #20
croissants wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the PhD is losing its lustre, it’s because the Universities took the shine off Also, circulating particularly weird dissertations for the express purpose of angering people has gotten a lot more rewarding

“Pay no attention to that canary, this coal mine is perfectly fine”

The canaries you posted are thriving

Re: Fewer students are enrolling in doctoral degrees

#80

Post by WorkerBee28474 »

vvpan wrote: post #46
comrade1234 wrote: post #19

Credit Suisse here in Switzerland used to only hire PhDs for programming positions. It didn’t matter what the PhD was in - they’d train you how to program. Note: credit Suisse collapsed a few years ago and now no longer exists.

Renaissance Technologies is a very successful hedge fund that almost exclusively hires PhD's to do the coding, no matter what field.

I believe RenTech only hires from highly numerical fields. E.g. math, physics, compsci.

They also employ <100 PhDs. The entire company is small. Might not be worth mentioning as an employed because the chance of getting in is miniscule.

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