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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#571

Post by adamrezich »

znpy wrote: post #464
nindalf wrote: post #93

Marcan links to an email by Ted Tso'o ( https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250208204416.GL1130956@mit.ed... ) that is interesting to read. Although it starts on a polarising note ("thin blue line"), it does a good job of explaining the difficulties that Linux maintainers face and why they make the choices they do. It makes sense to be extremely adversarial about accepting code because they're on the hook for maintaining…

> Marcan links to an email by Ted Tso'o ( https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250208204416.GL1130956@mit.ed ...) that is interesting to read. Although it starts on a polarising note ("thin blue line") Can I say that I was immediately put off by the author conflating the "thin blue line" quote from with a political orientation? The full quote (from the article) being: "Later in that thread, another major maintainer unironi…

Thank you for pointing this out—willfully, uncharitably misinterpreting “thin blue line” as used by Ts'o demonstrates a severe lack of empathy for people in his position.

Jumping to conclusions about police brutality and so forth (as many here in the comments are doing) is very frustrating to see, because, in context, the intent of his phrasing is very clear to anyone who doesn't needlessly infer Contemporary Political Nonsense in literally everything they read.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#572

Post by flykespice »

epcoa wrote: post #251
lenova wrote: post #140

This part of the post is being overlooked: Then 2024 happened. Last year was incredibly tumultuous for me due to personal reasons which I won’t go into detail about. Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). This is _not_ ok in any form, what the actual hell?

It seems like mostly personal problems, and if this is not going into detail, whoo I don't know what detail would be: https://vt.social/@lina/112887550181123672 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Vvwg0rwSVb5r4TQ_NmAF8S... They pretty much straight up confirm the identity of Asahi Lina, so enough with the gaslighting that merely mentioning this (and having a totally reasonable discussion on contributor persona poli…

I mean it was pretty obvious from the get-go when Marcan lent his Twitter account to Asahi Lina to promote their launch day. Who entrusts their account credentials to a stranger?

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#573

Post by twoodfin »

estebank wrote: post #476
attractivechaos wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hit by a similar thing. Rust once caused regression failures in 5000+ packages due to incompatibility with older "time" packages [1]. It was considered okay. At that point, I don't care what they say about semver. [1]: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/127343#issuecomment...

That was a mistake and a breakdown in processes that wasn't identified early enough to mitigate the problem. That situation does not represent the self imposed expectations on acceptable breakage, just that we failed to live up to it and by the time it became clearer that the change was problematic it was too late to revert course because then that would have been a breaking change. Yes: adding a trait to an existing…

It’s hard for me to tell if you’re describing a breakdown in the process for evolving the language or the process for evolving the primary implementation.

Bugs happen, CI/CD pipelines are imperfect, we could always use more lint rules …

But there’s value in keeping the abstract language definition independent of any particular implementation.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#574

Post by dralley »

tharne wrote: post #550
nindalf wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watch that YouTube link, you'll see the same guy Ted Tso'o accusing the speaker of wanting to convert people to the "religion promulgated by Rust". I think he apologised for this flagrant comment, but this email shows he hasn't changed his behaviour in the slightest.

> Ted Tso'o accusing the speaker of wanting to convert people to the "religion promulgated by Rust" Given the online temper tantrum thrown by marcan, Ted Tso'o's comment seems totally reasonable, regardless of one's opinion of Rust in the Linux kernel.

Ted gave that rant 6 months ago, and it was in fact unreasonable if you look at the details of what they were discussing.

You're trying to use Marcan's ragequit to ex-post-facto justify Ted T'so when it's literally the other way around.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#575

Post by _zoltan_ »

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

Let's be honest it's still pretty useless.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#576

Post by nialv7 »

epcoa wrote: post #251
lenova wrote: post #140

This part of the post is being overlooked: Then 2024 happened. Last year was incredibly tumultuous for me due to personal reasons which I won’t go into detail about. Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). This is _not_ ok in any form, what the actual hell?

It seems like mostly personal problems, and if this is not going into detail, whoo I don't know what detail would be: https://vt.social/@lina/112887550181123672 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Vvwg0rwSVb5r4TQ_NmAF8S... They pretty much straight up confirm the identity of Asahi Lina, so enough with the gaslighting that merely mentioning this (and having a totally reasonable discussion on contributor persona poli…

i have to admit i tend to get drawn in by dramas like this, it is a fault of mine, but it is what it is.

so anyway, i dug into the other party involved in this, i.e. the accused, and it looks like there is more to this story than what Lina lets on in her Google Doc linked here, perhaps there is another side. i am not going to go into details here, but if you are interested, it's not difficult to find her on twitter or bluesky. (and if you do choose to do so, please don't bother her, i don't want to cause her any harm by mentioning her here).

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#577

Post by [deleted] »

tharne wrote: post #550
nindalf wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watch that YouTube link, you'll see the same guy Ted Tso'o accusing the speaker of wanting to convert people to the "religion promulgated by Rust". I think he apologised for this flagrant comment, but this email shows he hasn't changed his behaviour in the slightest.

> Ted Tso'o accusing the speaker of wanting to convert people to the "religion promulgated by Rust" Given the online temper tantrum thrown by marcan, Ted Tso'o's comment seems totally reasonable, regardless of one's opinion of Rust in the Linux kernel.

[deleted]

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#578

Post by cornstalks »

steveklabnik wrote: post #542
cornstalks wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can still use gets() if you're using C89 or C99[1], so backwards compatibility is maintained. Rust 2015 can still evolve (either by language changes or by std/core changes) and packages can be broken by simply upgrading the compiler version even if they're still targeting Rust 2015. There's a whole RFC[2] on what is and isn't considered a breaking change. [1]: https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/5jb1hMbrx [2]: https://…

> so backwards compatibility is maintained. That's not what backwards compatibility means in this context. You're talking about how a compiler is backwards compatible. We're talking about the language itself, and upgrading from one versions of the language to the next. Rust 2015 is not the same thing as C89, that is true. > packages can be broken by simply upgrading the compiler version This is theoretically true, bu…

(side note: I don't think I've ever thanked you for your many contributions to the Rust ecosystem, so let me do that now: thank you!)

> You're talking about how a compiler is backwards compatible. We're talking about the language itself, and upgrading from one versions of the language to the next.

That's part of the problem. Rust doesn't have a spec. The compiler is the spec. So I don't think we can separate the two in a meaningful way.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#579

Post by o11c »

arp242 wrote: post #174
imiric wrote: post #147

This is unfortunate, but before pointing fingers, it's worth putting things into perspective. The linked "thin blue line" message[1] also says this: > One of the things which gets very frustrating from the maintainer's perspective is development teams that are only interested in their pet feature, and we know , through very bitter experience, that 95+% of the time, once the code is accepted, the engineers which contr…

I don't really follow what's objectionable about Ted's email, or why it's being singled out. It matches my experience as an open source maintainer pretty accurately. It's also pretty constructive (it goes on to lay out a plan on how to constructively proceed and make everyone happy).

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