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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#131

Post by Capricorn2481 »

felipec wrote: post #111
Capricorn2481 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, what an uncharitable read. Are you aware of what that term means? He said it was not about literally shaming people, but showing what contributing to the kernel is like, and even clarified it wouldn't be for public consumption. It's a colloquialism for a resource where peers can learn from each other's mistakes. My high school Spanish class had a hall of shame. It's a magnitude more professional than the extreme…

As if he didn't read the comment about not wanting the cross-language code to spread like cancer in the most uncharitable way possible.

My complaint is not that this maintainer would be charitable in their reads or should stay on the project, but that they are unevenly being examined because they are not one of the greybeards.

If you don't want a maintainer, that's fine, but to claim it has anything to do with professionalism is dumb when this is seen as communication to admire.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linusrants/

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#132

Post by throwway120385 »

surajrmal wrote: post #87
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #9

Well that's unfortunate. It seems like there's a balancing act between the benefits of writing drivers in Rust (easier, more maintainable), and getting those drivers mainlined (apparently soul-destroying, morale killing), I wonder if the Asahi team is considering simply abandoning linux in favor of something more rust friendly (redox being an obvious candidate, but maybe one of the BSDs?). Given the narrow set of har…

They would need to completely reset to do that. Do BSDs even have rust support for their drivers?

I believe it's a microkernel, so in the sense that every driver is a separate userspace process, yes.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#133

Post by Thaxll »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #9

Well that's unfortunate. It seems like there's a balancing act between the benefits of writing drivers in Rust (easier, more maintainable), and getting those drivers mainlined (apparently soul-destroying, morale killing), I wonder if the Asahi team is considering simply abandoning linux in favor of something more rust friendly (redox being an obvious candidate, but maybe one of the BSDs?). Given the narrow set of har…

If you don't use Linux it will end up as a dead project, no one is going to use redox.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#134

Post by bayindirh »

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

[Putting my dusty Linux Distro Maintainer Hat on]

First of all, I wholeheartedly applaud Marcan for carrying the project this far. They, both as individuals and as a team proper, did great things. What I can say is a rest is well deserved at this point, because he really poured his soul into this and worn himself down.

On the other hand, I'll need to say something, however not in bad faith. He needs to stop fighting with the winds he can't control. Users gonna be users, and people gonna be people. Everyone won't be happy, never ever. Even you integrate from applications to silicon level, not everyone is happy what Apple has accomplished technically. Even though Linux is making the world go on, we have seen friction now and then (tipping my hat to another thing he just went through), so he need to improve his soft skills.

Make no mistake, I'm not making this comment from high above. I was extremely bad at it, and I was bullied online and offline for a decade, and it didn't help to be on the right side of the argument, either. So, I understand how it feels and how he's heartbroken and fuming right now, and rightly so. However, humans are not an exact science, and learning to work together with people with strong technical chops is a literal superpower.

I wish Hector a speedy recovery, a good rest and a bright future. I want to finish with the opening page of Joel Spolsky's "Joel on Software":

Technical problems are easy, people are hard.

Godspeed Hector. I'm waiting for your return.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#135

Post by 999900000999 »

A few questions.

First, maybe Linux just is bound to always be a C only project. Linus Torvalds infamously dislikes C++, its sorta odd he didn't shut down Rust for Linux in the first place. Redox is on its way...

Second, there are multiple types of compensation. I think the author was probably looking to be compensated in validation from others. Maybe if Linus Torvalds, replied to his email the author would be more inclined to continue.

However, I can't be mad at someone for deciding how they want to spend their time. You only have so many hours in the day.

Would be cool if Qualcomm hired Marcan and worked with an OEM to roll out a series of Arm Linux laptops. That's what we ultimately want.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#136

Post by [deleted] »

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

[deleted]

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#137

Post by skydhash »

IshKebab wrote: post #37

Well written. I think the accusations of drama-hunting are unfounded. What else are you supposed to do in the face of persistent "non-technical nonsense"? Linus doesn't seem to care. Definitely a shame. I wonder if it would be in Apple's interests to actively support Linux on Mac. It would make Macs more attractive as developer machines, and I don't see how it would disadvantage them.

> It would make Macs more attractive as developer machines, and I don't see how it would disadvantage them.

The only development they want is development inside XCode. Anything else is a hard no.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#138

Post by tcmart14 »

Vilian wrote: post #38
chpatrick wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen this is excellent code, some people just really don't like Rust.

The last drama wasn't about the guy not liking drama, he just don't like nor want to maintain a codebase with two languages, but I think they really need to say it directly instead of calling it canser and leaving people to think he was calling rust cancer and not multiple languages codebase cancer

Im pretty sure he specifically said the cancer was trying to inter-op 2 languages in a code base and not Rust. Even went on to say that he thinks Rust is good and recommends people implement new Greenfield projects in it.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#139

Post by gsck »

I'm not sure about why they are upset with the issue of upstreaming the changes into the kernal.

They want to upstream drivers for a device that the creator of clearly has no interest in allowing others to use outside of their walled garden. The knowledge around it is from a massive , albeit impressive, RE effort.

Who is going to support it? Where is the demand for it? It would be different if Apple were to provide patches and drivers for their own hardware, at least then you know there is a vested interest in supporting the hardware from the people who know it better than anyone else and have the means to continue supporting it.

I applaud Hector and everyone else that contributes to Asahi, its genuinely a cool project and the progress they have made is insanely impressive given the lack of any official documentation about the hardware they are working on, but its one of these things that will remain in the realm of a cool curiosity much like running Linux on a games console.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#140

Post by lenova »

This part of the post is being overlooked:

Then 2024 happened. Last year was incredibly tumultuous for me due to personal reasons which I won’t go into detail about. Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so).

This is _not_ ok in any form, what the actual hell?

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